Text extraction. See Typescript Archive and Typescript Index 2024-11-10.
09:27:41
09:27:41 From Jeff Miller Hi Marc! Brian Marick has come to visit us today. Revisiting the decisions embedded in the history of Federated Wiki.
09:29:54 From Jeff Miller LOCKSS as practice.
09:31:30 From Jeff Miller exercising vital powers, in lines of excellence, a life affording them scope "eudaimonia" ? oh look, it's me. (explaining things)
09:35:04
09:35:04 From Jeff Miller Where was Reviewer #2 when D'Souza's editor needed him? the audit function of the literary world is asleep; so these are the Dreams of Reason.
09:36:04 From Eric Dobbs GeePaw (Mike) Hill describes human motivation with RAMPS is the thing… he adds Rhythm and Safety to Dan Pink’s telling of Autonomy, Mastery, & Purpose.
09:36:45 From Jeff Miller <3 Michael D. Hill's advice; Many More Much Smaller Steps.
09:39:11 From Jeff Miller Wormtongue? "consider this, Sire..." :) Where is Paul Wellstone when we need him?
09:40:56 From Jeff Miller shooting stars descending from the Blue Plane harvesting Google PageRank from Wiki
09:41:57 From Jeff Miller Federated Wiki has spam-immunity in its design. However it needs to be gardened and fostered to maintain engagement and understanding.
09:43:00 From Jeff Miller 100% - Marc as a visionary with purpose and direction, and a Customer for wiki. sense-making around value and choices of action
09:44:19 From Jeff Miller convicted felon number 7 (D'Souza) game theory, game theory everywhere
09:46:00 From Jeff Miller Number One Marick Fan in the chat. oh right Jan from Wikimedia! Jan Dittrich Jan is very connected and insightful.
09:47:28 From Jeff Miller one of Greg Wilson's books? (he complains about lack of impact) how do you get leaders to think the good stuff is their idea
09:48:49 From Jeff Miller (Context for the previous: welcoming discussion with Brian Marick; who's who and what's up) backgrounds of regular contributors are quite various
09:50:04 From Jeff Miller Eric Dobbs' journey through architecture, drawing, and perspective, via AutoCAD, to programming. AutoLISP yay BYTE
09:53:07
09:53:07 From Jeff Miller Mike Caulfield - an early contributor to Federated Wiki; a more important purpose than teacher training was fighting BS, with Kate Starbird, at the University of Washington.
09:54:19 From Eric Dobbs https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/
09:54:25 From Jeff Miller Environmental Data work from Ward; Mike Caulfield was a contributor with interests in collaboration (vs. the Environmental Data ~ Computation focus)
09:55:14 From Marc Pierson Speaking of computation in/on the FedWIki: https://contract.relocalizecreativity.net/view/nicks-account/view/marcs-account/view/small-smart-contract
09:55:20 From Jeff Miller "How to detect disinformation" - Mike Caulfield's training for children to understand it.
09:55:26 From Eric Dobbs Garden and the Stream is a a wonderful reflection by Mike Caulfield on his experience with early days of federated wiki.
09:55:55 From Jeff Miller oh RIGHT! I had forgotten it was Caulfield! USA Today as another sort of motivated strange behavior for newspapers - laid out at hotel room doors every morning == paid circulation.
09:57:02 From Jeff Miller the truth is five. Hail Discordia!
09:57:13 From Brian https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2018/11/28/the-digital-maginot-line/, not the link I'm looking for, but found along the way...
09:58:45 From Eric Dobbs I learned about Manginot line from David Woods, probably in this talk about applying Resilience Engineering to cybersecurity: https://cyberinitiative.org/events-programs/2021/human-side-seminar-series-david-woods-adaptive-systems.html
10:00:23 From Brian Replying to "https://www.ribbonfa..." https://cor.inquirygroup.org/ and https://sml.stanford.edu/digital-strength has a bit of info.
10:00:33 From Jeff Miller we'll see what the AI transcription does from my intro Visual Age, my old friend!
10:01:48 From Jeff Miller Had I only known, I should have joined IBM before IBM acquired my last hiring company. :) Allen Wirfs-Brock :) :) one of the strong contributors to ECMAScript
10:02:56 From Jeff Miller maybe a good eudaimonia model over a long time
10:03:09 From Brian Reacted to "I learned about Mang..." with 😀
10:03:15 From Jeff Miller programming as a dialectic ? (with AI) (Peter D's thoughts)
10:03:44 From Brian Hi Jan!
10:03:51 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) Reacted to "Hi Jan!" with 👋🏻
10:04:30 From Jeff Miller One of my favorite programs was "CapsLock was a mistake, make it more like Shift Lock" (assembly language programs) the lowered number of bits for model training was pretty fascinating
10:05:33 From Jeff Miller I have to wonder what's cooking in China on efficient model training.
10:06:00 From Marc Pierson Conways Law and Graph Databases
10:06:28 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) oh @Brian Marick, great to see you!
10:06:42 From Jeff Miller Marc Pierson, grand customer of FedWiki as a graph database workspace for human collaboration. RenDanHeYi - a self-organizing, tightly connected network organization, with Haier (Chinese industrial goods maker) as a founding example.
10:09:04 From Brian Marick Dan Davies /The Unaccountability Machine/ builds off Ashby (but especially Beer). https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/U/bo252799883.html
10:09:10 From Jeff Miller "Let's start with a large, any-to-any network model of the organization's teams and its customers, and prune it toward fruitful connections providing value." Brian M: appreciation, I'll go order Davies' book. I read Back of Mind a lot
10:09:45 From Brian Marick Reacted to "Brian M: appreciatio..." with 👍
10:10:04 From Eric Dobbs David Ing started the conversation years ago in Federated Wiki about wanting to talk about graphs in federated wiki.
10:10:29 From Jeff Miller and his most recent reflection was about why AI won't improve productivity in the professional class, much; most of their work is absorbing enough context to be useful exception-handlers.
10:10:45 From Marc Pierson https://opmdreams.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/index OPM Dreams
10:11:18 From Jeff Miller Ward's reflections on earlier contributors' points of interest resurfacing in current work in Federated Wiki development. Neo4J and "El Dorado" as organizational modeling in Ward's previous work for a company.
10:13:16 From Jeff Miller I had coffee with our favorite wiki artist a few weeks back.
10:14:05 From Marc Pierson Artisticness is an antidote to the hardening (prosaicness) of language.
10:14:07 From Jeff Miller Victoria Campbell (viki)
10:15:53 From Brian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls
10:16:01 From Jeff Miller Dashus Navnul / associate of Viki / working on a book / related to FedWiki in that there's a series of games (Bloodborne, Dark Souls) being studied as works of art, looking at influences and clues in the source code; parsing and telling those stories.
10:16:30 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) do they use fandom.com right now?
10:16:38 From Jeff Miller Federated Wiki as a potential publication format for Dashus' work. gosh, I started a FedWiki instance on my fandom for "I Was A Teenage Exocolonist"
10:17:38 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) Replying to "gosh, I started a Fe..." uhh great. Is it accessible or a private thing?
10:17:46 From Jeff Miller (but really their home for fans is multiple Discord servers)
10:19:37 From Jeff Miller fedwiki as provenance and precedence and recognition! interesting!
10:20:20 From Brian Replying to "https://www.ribbonfa..." https://www.cip.uw.edu/tag/mike-caulfield/
10:21:16 From Jeff Miller Replying to "gosh, I started a Fe..." didn't put a ton of pages on, but here: http://jeff.pixiereport.com/view/welcome-visitors/view/i-was-a-teenage-exocolonist/view/lineup-diagram how did we get in this washing machine? :)
10:23:43 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) old stuff :D
10:24:28 From Jeff Miller (Jan gives an introduction to how he arrived at the FedWiki meetings, via Wikimedia Deutschland, and Mastodon)
10:25:51 From Marc Pierson A different Pickering? https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/author/P/A/au5428459.html
10:26:07 From Jeff Miller Brian M: I hope Cat Hicks's work has been encouraging. ("Developer Thriving" etc.)
10:27:20 From Jeff Miller "The Mangle of Practice" - ontology and epistemology, well-explained in Pickering's work. "resilience engineering" work from Eric D.
10:28:33 From Marc Pierson Brian, please share this with Andrew Pickering. I give him credit for this awakening: https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/a-walled-city
10:29:05 From Jeff Miller a discipline arising out of a psychologist's study of Three Mile Island, interviewing people involved; software has safety-critical aspects, increasingly "All companies are software companies, and only some of them know it."
10:30:13 From Jeff Miller Eric D. may have contacts in Resilience Engineering who might have students whose research is relevant to Brian M's work. "hard" as in "rigid" sciences. :) ("reproduce on a tabletop") David Woods, John Allspaw, Adaptive Capacity Labs
10:32:03 From Jeff Miller "Being at FlickR, doing ten deploys a day, how do we do it? Putting developers and operations in a healthy relationship." - coinage of DevOps as a discipline and an influence
10:32:09 From Marc Pierson Where is Paul. He was sick on Wednesday. Is he ok?
10:32:28 From Brian Replying to "Where is Paul. He wa..." We had same question...Hope he is doing okay.
10:33:08 From Jeff Miller Replying to "Where is Paul. He wa..." I'll see if I can post today's notes to my blog. I've been pretty disconnected, but Paul has picked up the slack.
10:33:30 From Brian Reacted to "I'll see if I can po..." with 😀
10:34:00 From Jeff Miller bringing in David Woods (M.D.) as a contributor to resilience engineering in medicine, esp. around anesthesiology
10:35:30 From Jeff Miller interestingly in systems theory, the anesthesiologist usually bills separately (and can mess it up, twice for me)
10:35:42 From Eric Dobbs https://www.adaptivecapacitylabs.com/2022/09/12/richard-cook-a-life-in-many-acts/ https://how.complexsystems.fail/
10:36:27 From Jeff Miller build things bigger and bigger, they work until they don't immunology and genetics have had a rather accelerated run
10:37:28 From Jeff Miller (changing fast, even at the pace modeled by software)
10:38:35 From Jeff Miller Godel's Theorem = "there are true things that aren't provable in any consistent system" - the limits to logic (some of us came to Godel through Hofstadter)
10:39:29 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) "reflection", "linguistic turn"
10:39:30 From Jeff Miller Godel-numbering = putting arithmetic into arithmetic
10:40:13 From Marc Pierson Current social media suffers greatly from self reference.
10:40:27 From Jeff Miller the twentieth-century turn toward self-reference and recursion; Godel, Lisp, Derrida the metacircular Lisp interpreter
10:41:03 From Brian https://www.cofault.com/2022/08/3-lisp-infinite-tower-of-meta-circular.html Brian C. Smith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cantwell_Smith
10:41:16 From Marc Pierson Adding dynamics (recursion) to networks is all too interesting.
10:43:56
10:43:56 From Jeff Miller tail-recursion optimization being an old example of making a compact, deep structure computable in the scale of the interpreter's platform Computers as a scale of sense-making and coordination; (networked computers)
10:44:51 From dashus navnul https://web.archive.org/web/20140913011959/http://theviewfromhell.blogspot.com/2012/09/trying-to-see-through-unified-theory-of.html
10:46:07 From Jeff Miller Eric Dobbs relates his experience, needing to prepare electronic drawings for the history of perspective in art and architecture, with a researcher in history of science (perspective; Leonardo da Vinci; measuring instruments)
10:47:29 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) David Graeber had a lot of things to say about Bureaucracy, Renaissance, and ancient China, if I remember correctly.
10:47:31 From Jeff Miller The Renaissance in Western Europe: circa 500y following movable type printing presses, and the working out of that, folding in Greek and Roman bureaucratic organization. (from Eric Dobbs' initial immersion) people it's all made of people recursion and self-reference
10:48:45 From Jeff Miller Sarah Perry ? oh a writer for the Ribbonfarm blog
10:49:03 From Brian https://www.ribbonfarm.com/author/sarahperry/
10:49:37 From Jeff Miller "A Unified Theory of Nerddom" - Sarah Perry; find it on the Wayback Machine. (editor: support the Internet Archive!) repeating since it scrolled off: https://web.archive.org/web/20140913011959/http://theviewfromhell.blogspot.com/2012/09/trying-to-see-through-unified-theory-of.html thanks Dashus
10:51:52 From Jeff Miller a round of grand introductions of "how did the regulars arrive at FedWiki" for Brian Marick Brian Marick; a reflective practitioner of software, contributor to the early agile software movement.
10:54:17 From Jeff Miller Documenting contemporary art (Victoria Campbell in the many FedWiki instances in viki.wiki ) "an tool for application; a medium for presentation"
10:55:21 From Jeff Miller "sequences of presentation in hypermedia; when the document becomes the model; the medium and the presentation; depending on who's using it, different things emerge"
10:55:27 From Eric Dobbs Love this! “Federated wiki is both the exhibition and the medium.” — Viki
10:56:09 From Jeff Miller The history of Occupy Wall Street - was it blunted before it could accomplish larger things? A response to the 2008 housing and finance crisis.
10:56:43 From Peter Dimitrios DIsmayed
10:56:58 From Jeff Miller Aaron Swartz as an NFT !?
10:57:01 From Marc Pierson FedWiki as democratic creative nets.
10:57:12 From Jeff Miller influenced Creative Commons prosecuted by the federal government "The Programmable Web" "text-a-gami", a folded Interbase
10:59:06 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on a presentation at Thoughtworks; he had followed Tim O'Reilly's recommendation to read Aaron Swartz's blog; a different Aaron at Thoughtworks. (or was it him?)
11:01:42
11:01:42 From jan dittrich (er/he|they) need to go again, probably see you on next sunday!
11:01:48 From Jeff Miller bye Jan!
11:02:55 From Jeff Miller Dashus to Victoria, asking about Occupy Wall Street.
11:04:46 From Brian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Pool
11:05:55 From Jeff Miller Victoria relating a policeman asking, "Are you playing Freeze Tag?" at 2:30 at night. "Yes." - context: millennials getting together to gather over shared grievances about a stolen future, but also to just have fun. Eric D: reflects Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party both being insurgent reactions; but each one getting co-opted by a partisan establishment.
11:06:53 From Marc Pierson I would like to see a system of motivations rather than a system of actions. Shared motivations bifurcate (multifuricate) with action.
11:07:13 From Jeff Miller the Woodstock festival: "the kids came in as revolutionaries and came out as a market" (Eric D) "rebel against your parents, not against the system"
11:07:58 From dashus navnul Eric dobbs- you should watch a movie called "under the silver lake"
11:07:59 From Marc Pierson What is revolution at small scales?
11:09:24 From Marc Pierson The Democrats model was too simple. I had thought the Republicans had a small model. I think I was wrong.
11:10:21 From Jeff Miller (a discussion of the dynamics of the US federal election)
11:11:31 From Jeff Miller but power in the home, toward children; power in primary school, toward students (Women)
11:11:42 From Marc Pierson Democrats may be more exclusionary than Republicans.
11:13:00 From Jeff Miller or deliver on kitchen-table issues
11:14:42 From Jeff Miller Brian M asks: who's read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" ? monastery as preservation of ancient knowledge via scriptoria
11:15:07 From Brian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz
11:15:18 From Jeff Miller (though the Islamic world maybe did a better total job of preserving classic works)
11:15:22 From dashus navnul this sounds a lot like neil stehpensons anathem
11:15:40 From Marc Pierson Neighborhood Monasteries?!
11:15:43 From Jeff Miller "Monasteries for the Married" - Brian Marick's talk
11:16:16 From Eric Dobbs Marick paraphrasing A Canticle for Leibowitz: Monastery as a preserver of knowledge through the dark ages.
11:17:10 From Jeff Miller Stoics: individual sovereignty, "captain of my soul" Epicureans: retreat to our gardens together Monastics: fortified retreats with community discipline and preservation the monastery of Thoughtworks ? :)
11:17:33 From Marc Pierson To what extent can some neighborhoods become monasteries?????
11:17:56 From Jeff Miller through routines of mutual support and preparedness? (to Marc)
11:18:24 From Brian Replying to "To what extent can s..." They have to start with being more self-sufficient.
11:18:49 From Jeff Miller start out with resource connections and access for community members, and build it up into resource provision and local help matching Marc: cultivate resilient neighborhoods as a foundation for whatever is above and across
11:20:24 From Marc Pierson BRIAN I HOPE YOU RETURN
11:21:11 From Jeff Miller Eric Dobbs comments about his study of martial arts as a thing which survives the rise and fall of civilizations. "monasteries in China and Japan"
11:21:36 From Brian Marick Reacted to "BRIAN I HOPE YOU RET..." with ❤️
11:22:14 From Jeff Miller (aikido) - a heritage going back to Buddhist and Taoist temples, a tradition preserved teacher to student for thousands of years; also Eric's work about the Middle Ages; there was much human progress during the "Dark Ages", which was a political slam by those who wanted to promote Greek and Roman classicsism.
11:23:51 From Jeff Miller In proto-Renaissance Tuscany, monasteries funded painting rather than sculpture, since sculpture was an expensive high art;
11:23:59 From Brian Marick The Bright Ages: A New History of Medieval Europe https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57355365-the-bright-ages
11:25:34 From Jeff Miller monasteries used paintings for propaganda, for telling stories from their faith traditions, for example a corresponding set of stories from the life of St. Francis of Assisi and the life of Christ, matched up side by side across room.
11:26:00 From dashus navnul https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/542bc9e6e4b0bbe9ba2b2ad6/1413940101542-8IIB5EHISACWNBH0GUWO/image-asset.jpeg?format=2500w My favorite portrayel of christ
11:26:13 From Jeff Miller You end up, because of the artists' background as Middle Ages Italians, Italian-looking models and backgrounds.
11:26:26 From Brian Marick Reacted to "You end up, because ..." with ❤️ Removed a ❤️ reaction from "You end up, because ..." Reacted to "My favorite portraye..." with ❤️
11:27:20 From Marc Pierson Paintings as social media. The first story boards?
11:29:05 From Marc Pierson Perspective drawings abandons dreams for “reality”.
11:29:22 From Jeff Miller "We know the day that Francis got the stigmata of Christ, because it's a dated event from the monastic wall paintings, that dated stories in linear order, says Eric's sponsoring historian, that this teaching-art style is a source of telling thing sequentially by date."
11:29:52 From Marc Pierson Art began to tie itself to “reality”. Every night we play in dreams.
11:30:43 From Jeff Miller Neal Stephenson, "Anathem"
11:31:06 From Brian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem
11:31:06 From Jeff Miller he's pretty good, yes but he has his own tropes; Anathem's reveal was a bit of an "eh" for me.
11:32:20 From Eric Dobbs Dashus paraphrases Anathem… also features monasteries studying and preserving knowledge
11:32:22 From Jeff Miller Anathem's monasteries were a fascinating concept a set of embedded monasteries, each opening periodically on the scale of a month; of a year; of a decade; of a century; of a thousand years. "Gwern"
11:33:32 From dashus navnul https://gwern.net
11:34:00 From Eric Dobbs Long Now foundation was inspired by Anathem
11:34:08 From Jeff Miller Gwern reads very old books, rare books, scans them and puts them up on his site
11:34:08 From Marc Pierson For me a key use of the FedWiki is a global peer-peer catalogue of neighborhood patterns.
11:34:25 From Jeff Miller I thought that it was the other way around? Anathem inspired by the Long Now Society
11:35:02 From Brian https://uncensoredlibrary.com/en
11:35:14 From Jeff Miller Gwern's "Library of Forbidden Knowledge" - banned books; a non-coordinated effort. FedWiki as a centereless (to some extent) network; because each wiki instance is PULL rather than the recipient of PUSH
11:36:45 From Marc Pierson What if messaging in the future of the FedWiki is restricted to mutually signed pages with the request for sharing having to be mutual.
11:36:45 From Jeff Miller "both the exhibition and the medium" - Eric notes to Victoria's observation "when is it finished" - a question in art, like paintings - complete and resolved, often but what does the process look like, as art, itself?
11:39:08 From Jeff Miller Victoria observes that Federated Wiki doesn't particularly reward "finishing" in the same sense as other forms of art.
11:39:38 From Marc Pierson Language hardening? Art hardening? (being finished)
11:39:54 From Jeff Miller Brian Marick observes, re monasteries; (an aside about John Dewey and the role of habits in life); preserving HABITS more than knowlege. the aside from Jan D's post on Mastodon up in the sky level in an Alistair Cockburn sense
11:41:06 From Jeff Miller rather than at the ocean surface or below it. art: put it back in the oven and bake it until it's hard?
11:42:39 From Jeff Miller Brian reflects on what an effort of editorial revision and refinement has gone into any work of art, or journalism, or literature. What is the history of art, which makes current artwork legible.
11:43:51 From Marc Pierson If we have the time, (if) then I would like to discuss some fedwiki mechanisms?
11:44:31 From dashus navnul power tools
11:44:49 From Jeff Miller wikki stix or something
11:46:16 From Victoria Reacted to "If we have the time,..." with 👍 Replying to "If we have the time,..." Yes!
11:47:35 From Jeff Miller Montessori - age-appropriate, child-centered, competancy and work activities, occupational therapy as education
11:47:57 From dashus navnul https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdPaqt6RY_Q I almost went to this high school but my parents moved to prevent that.
11:47:59 From Jeff Miller habits like polishing tableware, putting things in order, mise en place Waldorf as more imaginal-based.
11:49:09 From Marc Pierson https://contract.relocalizecreativity.net/view/nicks-account/view/marcs-account/view/small-smart-contract/view/signed-messaging
11:49:51 From Jeff Miller Wikki Stix toy: https://www.wikkistix.com/ waxed string for modeling shapes (Marc is demonstrating computation via a lineup of pages) "Nick's Account", "Marc's Account", "Small Smart Contract", "Signed Messaging"
11:51:37 From Jeff Miller page signing / signed messaging as the anchor for authenticated and authorized calculation between two wiki sites (Marc reflects, in aside, about a roster of pre-approved sites which accept messages from each other)
11:53:19 From Jeff Miller Ward observes: "Both Marc and Nick have signed the content of a page, via its hash value, to a signature. Editing the page will change the hash value, which will invalidate any signatures on an old version of the page with a different hash value."
11:54:30 From Jeff Miller Can you coordinate a thing (wiki content) across sites, which have been accepted (signed) by different participants? Ward reflects on working with the Eclipse Foundation for accepting contributed code which can be included because of clear rights on the code.
11:56:02 From Jeff Miller Bjorn Freeman-Benson was working for the Eclipse Foundation on committer rights and validation of those committer rights for a proposed addition of code, accepting a patch.
11:56:03 From Marc Pierson I don’t want to use Ethereum if we can do it ourselves (FedWiki).
11:57:15 From Jeff Miller "Swimlanes" as a form of distributed coordination for the Eclipse Foundation, dispatching emails, getting votes of +1 and -1 -- having a test framework to demonstrate Swimlanes which can show how a sequence of actions happen. next to the voting button, '?' ran the interactive tests for that button, and reveals the next steps in the swimlanes process to the person who is reading the request for voting
11:58:31 From Marc Pierson Ward just described CoThrive the successor the The Coordinator.
11:58:50 From Jeff Miller "Can this Smart Contract be as good as that? Can it show what happens if you accept a next-step in the workflow?"
11:58:52 From Marc Pierson I want EVERYTHING in the FedWik.
11:59:13 From Jeff Miller Shows the CONSEQUENCES of pressing the button which you're expected to press if you accept the next step.
11:59:22 From Brian Sounds like some version of "work flow" and also revision control (not version control), e.g. enforcing the policy form making changes and archiving versions.
11:59:31 From Jeff Miller Embeds the workflow next step preview inline. automated workflow is a Big Deal in "enterprise software" (but it doesn't necessarily need to be centralized, except in an agreement on the protocol to use)
12:00:21 From Brian Where is the escrow part... github workflows might have that, if you trust the commiters...
12:01:19 From Jeff Miller Marc observes that harnessing the communication skills of small groups of people is what makes the RenDanHeYi approach work.
12:02:05 From Marc Pierson Plus really explicit agreements in writing and shared (public).
12:02:11 From Jeff Miller Eclipse Committer Portal - you could still browse and run the tests, even when not a committer. "The Swim System" escrow as a gate? "no third party in the FedWiki signed message system"
12:06:02
12:06:02 From Marc Pierson https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/test-into-existence
12:06:19 From Jeff Miller Ward outlines in brief both the history and the hope of the Swimlane workflow; that it didn't spread as a point of view for building process automation with visibiliity and tests.
12:07:15 From Ward Cunningham https://wiki.eclipse.org/images/2/20/Swim_System_PNSQC_2007_Paper.pdf
12:07:43 From Jeff Miller The mindset of developers, testers, and workflow designers was not oriented toward seeing how the Swim System was useful. (Jon Udell praised the Swim System) History of FitNesse (from Fit)
12:08:51 From Jeff Miller WyCash used the Framework for Integrated Testing Eric Evans prompted Ward to create an open-source version of the WyCash test runner; FIT
12:09:44 From Marc Pierson Victoria, did you get to make your point / ask your question?
12:09:50 From Jeff Miller Robert Martin got a demonstration of FIT
12:09:58 From Eric Dobbs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitNesse
12:10:02 From Victoria I have to run to get ready for a course I’m taking this afternoon. Thanks for reminding me I was late Ward!
12:10:04 From Jeff Miller and created an integrated runner as a Java wiki http://fitnesse.org
12:11:31 From Victoria I’ll read it too! Talk to you all soon!
12:11:35 From Jeff Miller Wikki Stix
12:12:18 From Brian RSS could play a role with FedWiki.
12:12:30 From Jeff Miller Ward describes the Eclipse Foundation portal
12:12:44 From Brian With a FedWiki plugin that polls the RSS part, maybe manually triggered by visiting a page.
12:13:39 From Jeff Miller Dashus Navnul - "truth systems" from the structure of collaborative social media
12:14:02 From Marc Pierson https://www.truthsystems.ai/
12:15:26 From Jeff Miller a structure of textual argumentation with an audience and commentary; truth-seeking and anchoring in past activity.
12:15:44 From Eric Dobbs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_map
12:15:46 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on "decision support" systems as an example.
12:17:20 From Jeff Miller Dashus reflects on the design of truth-seeking social discussion systems; is interested in it as a development effort (an accelerator for personal research, via collaboration)
12:18:47 From Jeff Miller "The world's only based RussiaGate believer." (sincerely anchored)
12:19:23 From Ward Cunningham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issue-based_information_system
12:19:50 From Marc Pierson https://pleurality.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/index
12:20:22 From Jeff Miller Dashus reflects that the mechanism for signed agreements in FedWiki proposed for coordinating work, shares some of the mechanisms and structure for truth-seeking proposition systems.
12:21:18 From Brian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issue-based_information_system
12:21:31 From Jeff Miller Ward recalls Issue Based Information Systems (IBIS) as a way of patients of rare diseases to collaborate on truth-finding. Ward and Marc have looked at the "Pleurality" system, though it's nationally focused more than neighborhood based.
12:22:28 From Marc Pierson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Tarski On truth
12:22:52 From Jeff Miller what does a coordination inbox look like? (automatic pull of some things under some conditions) Define a community by a roster for collaboration.