Typescript 2024-01-31

10:00:33

10:00:33 From Robert Sterbal The Center-Left Movement with Jeremiah Johnson of the Center for New Liberalism | Episode 983 Phone Programs for Progressives with Gerry Tyson of The Tyson Organization | Episode 982 Public Opinion in the Age of Trump with Pete Brodnitz of Expedition Strategies | Episode 981 Studying Campaign Tactics with Don Green of Columbia University | Episode 980 Better Leadership for Progressive Organizations with Robert Gass of Rockwood Leadership Institute | Episode 979 Defeating Trump in the Primaries with Robert Schwartz of PrimaryPivot | Episode 978 Building Progressive Power in the Southeast with Daniel and Griff of VoteShift | Episode 977 Helping Americans Get Identification with Kat Calvin of Spread The Vote | Episode 976 Experimentation and Campaign Tactics with David Nickerson of Temple University | Episode 975

10:02:24 From Robert Sterbal https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TI_ovPh0GKuL8v9xEMJgH1HWtfwtnXEpYQgLT8WxnVs/edit?usp=sharing

10:04:07 From Jeff Miller Robin McNeil of McNeil-Lehrer (Canadians in the media)

10:05:47 From Robert Sterbal Cory Doctorow gave a speech about Marshall Mcluhan

10:05:49 From Jeff Miller earlier discussion on frame scripting for lightweight parsing http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/typescript-transcripts/view/typescript-archive (Ward's scripts)

10:07:11 From Jeff Miller the blue plane represented? (future / large-perspective visions of change)

10:11:20

10:11:20 From Jeff Miller a note from Mario on EU-funded projects on information sharing (wiki-like projects) created but not sustained over time; examining previous efforts guided a design where there was a low technical barrier to participation; there were personal, specific participants with presence and specific interests; there was attention in the design to making relationships visibly evident. What would be a good community of practice for adopting a structured knowledge space with this design?

10:13:41 From Jeff Miller "to care for other entities, to be an author or editor, you must have a profile; each page has a personal owner which can be reassigned; a person page has areas of concern (which might not [yet] be pages); you can see constellations of entities with common concerns in the relationship graph.

10:15:48 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on Wikipedia as a comparative or contrasting model with a ramp up in participation over time. Mario points out that their design, by contrast, specifically surfaces the structure of collaboration over time - a layer of who's working on what with whom; who's out there who could be worked with?

10:16:50 From Jeff Miller (Jeff notes that The Sims was apparently influenced in spirit by Christopher Alexander, whose works appear in the Suggested Readings for an early version's printed manual - to Ward/Mario mention of C.A.). "the thickness of relation being a way to see the flow of transformative activity; communities of practice can contain each other, can overlap, can co-exist"

10:20:10

10:20:10 From Jeff Miller Ward asks about influence of patterns related to "web of trust" or DAOs? (asserted relationships; the technology sometimes overshadows the practical value); Mario notes less specific focus on the technical mechanisms, more about mutual assertion of connection.

10:22:19 From Jeff Miller "the collaborative link" in Federated Wiki is that when a page is copied into a locally owned context via "fork", then it creates a link to the original. The Federated Wiki mechanisms are able to supply context by noting the presence of those source links to the neighborhood wikis contributing to the original page.

10:23:25 From Jeff Miller mentions of power and communication loss; Portland had snow, ice, and power loss, other folks have to maintain their own links Mario has a working demonstration.

10:24:51 From Jeff Miller Regenerative Knowledge Commons demonstration UI mechanisms have MediaWiki heritage.

10:26:02 From Jeff Miller it's been months since I've been here on Wednesday

10:28:18 From Jeff Miller Eric introduces himself and his role as a FedWiki contributor; effectively a resilience engineer as a day job role (incident analysis).

10:29:47 From Eric Dobbs While I was postponing my degree, I worked at the McLuhan Center at University of Toronto (early 1990s).

10:30:05 From Jeff Miller glad there's an official decorous name, "platform decay", a good systems dynamics name (Cory Doctorow's speech) ABD is not enough. (me)

10:31:51 From Jeff Miller Ward has a demonstration which includes geolocation and a picture-a-day and the new FedWiki image plugin; there's also a trail-of-the-day from the first two years of the pandemic.

10:33:14 From Jeff Miller Ward remarks on a Little Free Library at the end of a road (where there is a break from the street to a trail to another street) - and Ward's demo is about Little Free Libraries in his neighborhood. "Have I seen this one before?"

10:34:28 From Jeff Miller Ward points to a page with a gallery of Little Free Libraries, and then there are three maps with points identifying the location of the picture of the Little Free Library.

10:36:10 From Jeff Miller "New Little Library" is a FedWiki page which includes a script that looks up other Little Free Libraries already known to Ward's photos wiki, using geolocation information -- so "0.00 miles to this library" means that there's already a picture.

10:37:49 From Jeff Miller Let's say that we want a street address? "Map region shown above" - shows closest few libraries known, and if this is a new library, there's street block / street address information available (not blocked by the map pin).

10:38:49 From Robert Sterbal A google version: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/edit?mid=1p66pY3pLLsO06Hw6pSWwyBDY-J7fwyEj&ll=24.544874857375444%2C-61.01776505000001&z=4

10:38:53 From Jeff Miller "I like the notion that I can write something that's semantically useful for me in the moment, and that I can build a workflow, and that I can double-check what I'm adding (based on knowledge already present)" Simple workflow construction, semantically meaningful.

10:40:05 From Jeff Miller "I like the notion that things that I'd like to do - measuring distance between two places - can be easily built in". Ward notes that Marc has arrived; his interest is in having these linked knowledge spaces being in the hands of members of a neighborhood, maybe a kid who figures out how to build these little tools to help people out with things they care about.

10:41:30 From Robert Sterbal Marc, what does OPM mean?

10:41:48 From Robert Best Object process methodology

10:42:04 From Robert Sterbal Reacted to "Object process metho..." with ❤️

10:42:09 From Jeff Miller OPM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Process_Methodology

10:42:16 From Robert Best https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Process_Methodology

10:43:28 From Robert Sterbal Jinx, I owe you both a coke

10:44:17 From Jeff Miller Marc introduces his background in health care, reflecting on the way things work or don't work, and followed his interest to putting modeling and context building tools into the hands of neighborhoods, so that they can help themselves understand their needs and strengths, to better help each other and advocate for their needs.

10:46:08 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on learning - acquiring habits of practice and knowledge - a martial arts approach, versus common ways of demonstrating knowledge in information technology as "I know these big words!"

10:48:24 From Jeff Miller Marc's reflection on modeling tools is that organizations want to own the tools to be more effective in making their own strategic decisions to serve their own needs -- something that he does not want to further promote -- and is now focused on how people make conversations with each other to understand needs, mechanisms, decisions: "cave drawings" on the wall, that they can discuss and understand what they need to take action on their shared understanding and priorities. Less "do this" and more "let's figure out how we understand the connections together".

10:49:32 From Jeff Miller Marc highlights Ward's tool, "El Dorado", for describing a graph or network of relationships for a large group of people of overlapping interests working together. Marc shows a Miro board with many small pages, each showing a diagram for building understanding and models, including blank templates filled-out examples, and asking and answering questions with the filled-out graphs.

10:51:55 From Jeff Miller Marc's examples come from neighborhood work around Superior, Arizona in the Copper Corridor, starting with the community, groups and individuals, and elaborating how this model might be used to model what happens when a mining company initiates a project in the local area - who is concerned, why, and what connections are interesting? Marc likes the Federated Wiki as a collaborative platform for working together on the things which you might want to include in the model.

10:55:07

10:55:07 From Jeff Miller "Pools of Insight" - Joshua Kerievsky's pattern langauge for book discussion groups.

10:55:51 From Marc Pierson I would like to meet Mario (and Tobias).

10:56:06 From Jeff Miller Jeff relates his experience with Christopher Alexander's influence on software design therough GHJV's "Design Patterns" through ...

10:56:17 From Paul Rodwell https://www.industriallogic.com/blog/pools-of-insight-study-groups/

10:57:33 From Jeff Miller Ward relates his experience teaching a discussion class to experts using Joshua Kerievsky's course work on discussing the Gang of Four design patterns in a differently structured order - one which helps understand knowledge sharing by composing related patterns. "often misunderstood, without group discussion" - Ward. "won't have the life that we hoped when we wrote it" - Marc

10:59:05 From Jeff Miller Ward relates: "the discussions were lively when people recognized the patterns from their own work; when the discussions were less lively, I would jump ahead to the summarized context, where the patterns might occur in a way different from the main introduction of the pattern"

11:00:32 From Jeff Miller Ward relates: Joshua's magic in structuring a community of learners, based on his Great Books discussion based education, that structure helped the class reveal points of common interest to generate creative and productive discussion. Ward worried that the special circumstances of the highly experienced developers might be hard to repeat. Who's the corresponding folks in a neighborhood? Probably mothers, people who have long-term interest in their neighborhood's health.

11:02:55 From Jeff Miller Mario introduces himself: information systems in a public hospital; ecology and whole-systems design; local food systems; more complex, now my interest is in social movements, in permaculture; followed my interest to Europe as a place where these interests are more visible and active, and wikis as a way to support these forms of transformation. Marc reflects on commonality with working together (Marc, Kerry, Chris) in neighborhood activism and mutual support as a point of correspondence to Mario's efforts.

11:04:36 From Jeff Miller "a community of place" as a factor about how changes can happen; "transformative ecosystems"; a third space, not corporate or government, but communities of place overlapping with communities of practice. Let's not have that lost every time someone makes an intervention. - Mario.

11:05:20 From Robert Sterbal What I hear from what is being said is that there is a dysfunction in the government. Is that accurate?

11:05:23 From Jeff Miller Marc shares a diagram of interacting systems, using his "EIP" framework. There are nesting geographic and ecological scales, from global down to watershed or homestead; there are nesting geopolitical scales of organization, on the other side.

11:06:42 From Jeff Miller Between the nesting scales of ecology and the nesting scales of politics is an interaction area

11:08:22 From Jeff Miller And the area of interaction between the two nesting scales, stage left being the physical world, and stage right being the decision making world of political entities, that's the stage in which things happen. - Ward's reflection on Marc's EIP diagram. "What's happening on the stage is important."

11:10:15 From Jeff Miller Marc notes that the notion of a stage of interaction -- that comes back to Paul R. -- Elinor Ostrom's framework, NPF, "narrative policy framework" -- they used character, setting, plot, and outcome, it was a crossover between Ostrom's work and this simple NPF - and I went back to storycrafting references. Could these policy models and interactions be seen as narrative? "Story Craft" book being held up by Marc Storycraft, https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo71028154.html

11:11:34 From Jeff Miller "The Complete Guide to Writing Narrative Nonfiction"

11:12:46 From Jeff Miller After rereading Storycraft, it occurred to Marc that using the narrative terms from NPF -- and his reflection through his daughter the filmmaker -- that the ideas for putting the middle, "I" section, and relating to it as a stage of play between E and P. "This document draws both of them together." - Paul on the reference provided to Ward about NPF. Taking Elinor Ostrom's IAD and relating it to NPF, narrative policy framework.

11:14:49 From Jeff Miller Mario relates: a wiki as permeable membrane, not just a map and directory, but something which changemakers find value in operating within, part of their everyday life as changemakers. (a changemakers' workflow / workspace) ? -Jeff

11:15:51 From Jeff Miller "Regenerative Knowledge Commons" - illustration with an interlaced Celtic inspired logo with a double helix arcing from roots over a symbolic central tree. https://yanez.earth/ - Mario Yanez' site. "commoning" vs. "commons" "commoning" - the process of caring for what we hold in common

11:17:22 From Jeff Miller what we've inherited, a hierarchy of commons; as physical beings, as animals, as living beings, as humans - "does the spiral design refer to time as well as space?" - Marc / "yes" - Mario

11:19:07 From Jeff Miller A hierarchy of interaction and participation; RKC is a space which we Inhabit by regenerating the commons - first self and thinking, then with others, the systems to be transformed, co-learning and co-creating RKC as a relational map (showing a constellation-like map of relations)

11:20:09 From Jeff Miller RKC as an ecosystem: enough structure to be viable, to be living, but not overprescriptive entities in RKC:
* persons, initiatives, communities of place, communities of practice, initiatives, and interventions. "an enabler for regenerative commoning" - regenerating the commons we inherit

11:21:36 From Jeff Miller a six-lobed pattern of interaction among the six sorts of entities supporting one another in their regenerative activities oops, missed PATTERNS * persons, patterns, communities of place, communities of practice, initiatives, and interventions.

11:23:25 From Jeff Miller RKC identifies a person as a node, a person can be associated with initiatives and communities; they can refer to or create patterns, they can take action via interventions. "a very alive apace, lived-into by people, we don't want ghost entities, but living participants"

11:24:47 From Eric Dobbs https://regenerative.wiki

11:24:56 From Jeff Miller regenerative.wiki -> https://rkc.communitiesforfuture.org/index.php/Main_Page

11:26:51 From Jeff Miller Eric reflects: "I'm struck by the visual language of connections from common interests in RKC - this interests me because of resilience engineering study. What strikes me is that the visual language of resilience engineering (concerned with complexity, tangled layered network of governance and community) - that the visual language is so similar despite the superfically different topics." Eric points to the six entity diagram in RKC.

11:27:17 From Eric Dobbs https://humanisticsystems.com/2016/12/05/the-varieties-of-human-work/

11:27:38 From Jeff Miller Eric brings up an example (see the Humanistic Systems link) with the siagram.

11:27:39 From Robert Sterbal podcast on regenerative ag: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/reclaiming-soil-with-dr-jon-lundgren/id1453126311?i=1000643367140

11:27:41 From Jeff Miller diagram.

11:29:15 From Jeff Miller "Work as imagined, Work as prescribed, Work as disclosed, Work as done" - Eric shows the diagram from Humanistic Systems. There's a family of overlapping concerns that relates - how complex systems work themselves out. Marc points to the small common overlap among all the "Work-As". "What's that?"

11:30:55 From Jeff Miller Eric says: "In the real world, things don't stay in a place in this diagram; we imagine that what we prescribe is what's done, but it isn't necessarily so -- and in fact, often is necessarily NOT so." Eric says: one of the critical overlaps here is "A MAP SUPPORTS A CONVERSATION"

11:32:10 From Jeff Miller Marc says: a diagram anchors a conversation across time. The act of co-creating is a marker for the conversation; Mario: re-generating that information by revisiting the conversation.

11:33:18 From Jeff Miller Marc says: I used to have a diagram that was a more nuanced version of the Viable System Model. The execs would often argue about things which did not actually connect, and they did not understand they were talking past one another. And that's why the organization did not change. We have to build these diagrams together; if you want other people to use them, we have to understand and convey that A PATTERN IS NOT A BLUEPRINT. - Marc.

11:34:32 From Jeff Miller Ward says: "a pattern is a record of decisions which COULD be made, not decisions which have been made."

11:35:57 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that there was a transition in computer programming - in what you'd have to do - that the transition was reflected in Alan Kay's Dynabook, in Xerox PARC's Alto, and the Smalltalk personal desktop computing system.

11:37:06 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that when connecting with Kent Beck - "what does this system have to say to us, working together with it" - that patterns have shown up in the vocabulary of engineers - but at that point, it was a three-way conversation among myself, Kent, and the computer about how the software was evolving. Ward reflects: "the flexibility was available, the conversation was possible, because the whole context was visible upon the screen, you could point HERE and THERE and say - do more of that here, we have to do the same thing over there."

11:39:08 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects: earlier practices required you to commit to names as points of reference, while the Smalltalk visual desktop approach made it possible to explain by pointing, by taking turns, "show me" and demonstrating things in conversation with each other and the computer. (a live system) "We could not have had that conversation together if the system wasn't graphical and interactive" Alan Kay (the individual) -> Ward and Kent (the conversation overheard, generative and productive)

11:40:22 From Jeff Miller "How come you guys get to have all this fun?" / "Because we're productive together." Wikipedia has its own generative cycles. (re-generative cycles) - but they'd different.

11:42:09 From Jeff Miller Marc reflects: "in a federated wiki, nobody's point of view gets erased" - (mention of Leo's as a community space for collaboration in Superior, Arizona) Ward reflects on the C2 PPR wiki, that there was eventually enough PageRank - enough Google Juice - that there was a motivation to spam C2 with Viagra ads.

11:43:43 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects on "eventually we had to turn off C2 Wiki, it was too centralized to resist the pressures"

11:44:20 From Marc Pierson Fedwiki can spawn metawikis that get used or not.

11:44:35 From Jeff Miller and how do you find them? ("wikis as a workspace for community" for a community member to point you to an entry point)

11:46:08 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects being able to reclaim and revisit content about domain-driven design (DDD, Eric Evans) - the browser's page search could find it within one of his ways of finding sites. "There will be a proliferation of sites, and there will be multiple mechanisms for finding them - one more way to search - a discovered affordance"

11:47:15 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects: "I'm confused by what I see in Federation Search. Maybe I should visualize it." (a conversation with Paul. (after attempting a command-line search of the data) Ward has demonstrated "here are all the sites!" but Marc said "oh, where are my Relocalize sites?" - the problem was that RelocalizeCreativity sounded too much like "localhost" and "local" was taken out of wikis to organize and index.

11:48:47 From Jeff Miller Ward demonstrated an intermediate result, and another member of the community had a question that could be answered by understanding and getting into the piece which needed attention. regenerating search mechanisms via reflecting on them together through demonstration

11:49:54 From Jeff Miller Marc asks Mario about the Regenerative Knowledge Commons approach - who are your other resources for knowledge organization and expertise?

11:51:18 From Jeff Miller Mario and collaborating team members have highlighted that wikis have the capability of being living knowledge systems - that the design work builds on MediaWiki, and there is some knowledge commons background from the WIkimedia foundation - we got help by hiring WikiWorks.

11:51:37 From Eric Dobbs I’ve gotta run to a work appt. Thank you all for filling my sails again!

11:52:00 From Jeff Miller We built out two of the six structures in the prototype. - Mario

11:52:35 From Robert Sterbal Marc, do you have a link to your license?

11:52:42 From Jeff Miller the low-barrier forms and structures to create the entities we envision for EKS.

11:54:06 From Jeff Miller Marc reflects happily on using Federated Wiki and a set of small, constructed tools provided by the FedWiki dev community to support the workflows and visualizations to support Relocalize Creativity and related efforts. Mario reflects: we always considered EKS as a form from which there could be multiple regenerative communities, that they could support different audiences and domains.

11:55:04 From Marc Pierson Mario https://relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/relocalize-creativity-explained

11:56:34 From Jeff Miller Marc demonstrates https://relocalizecreativity.net/ - tools for disseminating patterns and tools for community knowledge, understanding, and action. "a program is a coordinated activity" - in the ReLocalize Creativity context "Patterns, Programs, Partners"

11:57:37 From Jeff Miller "How can we turn this diagram into a clickable navigation map?" Ward notes some history in turning diagrams into clickable navigation - that different drawing tools export different SVG structures, some of which are easier to use "Enrich Any SVG" than others.

11:58:53 From Jeff Miller "Enrich" = make it into locally clickable links within FedWiki

12:00:19 From Jeff Miller AstralShip: Wales. https://astralship.org/

12:01:48 From Jeff Miller Tobias: "at the AstralShip working on a series of hackathons with local engagement, including educational content emerging from this work, bringing in partners, designing around a handful of themes: meaning-making, land relationships and governance, bioregional digital twin development, storytelling, innovative fundraising" each of these topics being a multiweek hackathon

12:02:58 From Jeff Miller doing the work getting ready to have all of that collaborative hackathon energy coming in - we're working hard to get the physical space ready and welcoming for visitors and what are the ways to bring in the right people into the network, with skills and interests which could produce great results;

12:04:08 From Jeff Miller in the meantime lots of energy preparing the ground.

12:05:48 From Jeff Miller Regenesis Group: https://regenesisgroup.com/team (?)

12:06:18 From Ward Cunningham https://www.theregenesisinstitute.com/ ??

12:07:30 From Jeff Miller https://www.regenerat.es/ "the Regenerative Practicioner Series" regenerative practitioner series

12:10:18

12:10:18 From Paul Rodwell https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8244784/ ?

12:11:31 From Jeff Miller "The Hunt" featuring Betty Gilpin (Pete's suggested fun and silly but violent movie)

12:14:07

12:14:07 From Jeff Miller Ward mentions that there are Sunday and Wednesday calls (for the interested guests).

12:14:09 From Robert Sterbal can I get this page updated? http://fed.wiki/view/text-and-video-chats Some space between the charts

12:14:34 From mario yanez What’s the link for Sundays?

12:14:39 From Ward Cunningham Yes, I will add the space.

12:14:58 From Robert Sterbal Replying to "What’s the link for ..." http://fed.wiki/view/text-and-video-chats

12:15:09 From Ward Cunningham fed.wiki is a good starting point.

12:15:12 From Jeff Miller The Wednesday one worked for me? Oh, OK.

12:15:19 From Marc Pierson https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86797667732?pwd=T1IvdEtVc2cxTzh3YlBOc0hiNjFtUT09#success

12:15:30 From Jeff Miller ^ Sunday wiki link (Zoom)

12:17:39 From Pete HATEOS

12:18:12 From Jeff Miller Hypertext As The Engine of Application State (Roy Fielding)

12:21:53

12:21:53 From Jeff Miller Apple Newton - the Dynabook realization of its era? Tektronix Smalltalk providers went to join Apple and work on systems including the Newton.

12:22:54 From Jeff Miller Newton was a little underpowered. (Sun JavaStation was also underpowered) PalmPilot and relatives were pretty effective, in its day.