Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
10:17:26
10:17:26 From Jeff Miller Clay Shirky https://gwern.net/doc/technology/2005-shirky-agroupisitsownworstenemy.pdf twin pages dynamical characteristics by scale power of weak ties
10:18:50 From Jeff Miller necessarily superficial for learning things you don't know thus my raised hand Dorkbot PDX?
10:19:49 From Marc Pierson The weak ties refers to people you don’t know.
10:19:59 From Andrew Shell BRB worker here
10:21:31 From Jeff Miller idk, the Recurse Center is a container for a bunch of superficial but common-interest folks. aha, right; I'm not interested in most pop-culture gossip news. a distributable play-with-it demonstration
10:22:51 From Jeff Miller "be sure to post a screenshot of what you found interesting!" - Ward's approach to chumming the water for interest
10:24:04 From Jeff Miller the famous webmail origin story, "I can't talk to you about this on a mobile phone!" University of Bologna has outlasted many companies thinking of things of a parallel nature to Wikipedia
10:25:36 From Jeff Miller <Web Search / Wikipedia / Wayback Machine> being the trifecta I wonder if there's a similar trifecta to be had with a civil society self-organizing kit. Very Whole Earth Catalog.
10:27:40 From Jeff Miller (to Marc's sense of what it would take to elevate community self-organizing patterns using FedWiki and related tools - a heavier lift than Wikipedia?)
10:27:47 From Marc Pierson The successful use of FedWiki civic patterns would be the equivalent of wikipedia’s reference.
10:28:49 From Jeff Miller (a nod - hmm, there are co-op enterprise patterns which might be lively enough to spin off a community pattern language repository)
10:30:29 From Jeff Miller pattern harvesting from the works of Ostrom; from the works of the Basque co-ops? seeing campfire talks and cave drawings in others' common understandings?
10:32:51 From Jeff Miller "methodologies don't work for anybody until they make them their own" (the Beck vs. Michael Hill versions of TDD being different)
10:35:19 From Jeff Miller keyword index to references (a story from Ward)
10:38:18
10:38:18 From Jeff Miller "Summer o Protocols, launching their Protocol Kit"
10:38:28 From Paul Rodwell https://paragraph.xyz/@protocolized/introducing-the-protocol-kit
10:38:35 From Jeff Miller ty Paul!
10:39:36 From Jeff Miller https://summerofprotocols.com/kit 3-ring pamphlets on the protocol kit page.
10:40:43 From Paul Rodwell https://summerofprotocols.com/ links to the pdfs
10:42:17 From Jeff Miller (electronic health records; Martin Fowler had worked on that effort, and what details were important for usefully comparable, the protocols for physical measurements like heart rate and temperature; Marc recalls a Portland-based developer of a personal electronic medical record )
10:42:27 From Jan D. (er|he|they) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science
10:43:12 From Jeff Miller Stephen Wolfram's A New Kind of Science (Marc's recollection as set of protocols) Howard Rheingold's mention of a cell as an organizing pattern at many levels, recently in his Twitter feed.
10:45:02 From Jeff Miller differential equations, beat frequencies ... Fourier spectral analyses; interference patterns? (a description of coupled oscillators as a basis for analog computation)
10:46:21 From Jeff Miller (digging for Howard Rheingold's note) leaky-bucket computation
10:47:28 From Jeff Miller (Brian mentions the leaky-bucket metaphor for multiply coupled systems, like cells) oops no, it was Mel Conway https://twitter.com/conways_law/status/1734207857568911368
10:48:34 From Jeff Miller @conways_law 2023-12-11 Research needed: Abstract the biological cell model to be scale- and mechanism-invariant, and recursive. I expect it to look like a homeostatic network inside a permeable envelope with provision for message-passing through the envelope. Messages, nodes, & branches are typed. Mel Conway 2 of 3: Cells are nodes. Emergence is the recursion mechanism, i.e., subnetworks of a special type are able to send and/or receive messages. This provides for feedback loops involving cells of different types and levels, enabling complex system behaviors.
10:49:56 From Jeff Miller Mel Conway 3 of 3: The model applies uniformly across all creatures, from bacteria to economies and political entities, and everything in between. Imagine how multi-disciplinary acceptance of such a model might affect the biggest knowledge blocker of our time: (C.P. Snow's The Two Cultures)
10:50:56 From Marc Pierson The wiki holds the cave drawings.
10:51:20 From Jeff Miller FedWiki a slower system (Ward notes) though it reduces the ability to have lively communication; the total FedWiki community is FedWiki + Matrix + regular calls.
10:51:21 From Marc Pierson Globally distributed cave.
10:51:53 From Jeff Miller Brian asks about how to have connected conversations on FedWiki
10:51:57 From Marc Pierson My cave is different that you cave but we can share similar scenes on the wall.
10:52:01 From Jan D. (er|he|they) I need to leave. See you (probably) on Sunday.
10:52:58 From Jeff Miller Ward notes: "You'lre motivated to fork a page to refer to its contents in your work; as they pass that page, if they're curious, they can navigate to the neighborhood -- both a link and a context to the original page" FedWiki's substitute for the context algorithm is neighborhoods. You can see what sites are in the search neighborhood and you can adjust it if needed.
10:54:20 From Marc Pierson Could we use a key, like cap lock, to keep neighborhoods locked until you unlock it.
10:55:12 From Jeff Miller a search-neighborhood lock? (or maybe a partition between in-context results and out-of-context results?)
10:55:29 From Brian "freeze" the neighborhood.
10:55:46 From Jeff Miller seems like a meaningful sort of thing "manifest a roster of the current neighborhood" / "search only in this roster" something like that?
10:56:37 From Brian "neighborhood manager"...like an HOA...lol.
10:56:40 From Jeff Miller hmmm hmmm hmmm (thinking of a visible search roster context on the results page)
10:57:38 From Brian neighboorhood depth... page and lineup centric neighborhoods.
10:58:40 From Jeff Miller Paul recalls a discussion about needing user interaction to extend the neighborhood - that a page full of rosters isn't automatically part of the neighborhood; a forked page doesn't automatically add its source to the neighborhood. Ward reflects that the neighborhood is part of the client state, and can be experimented with to compare the experiences of navigating the federation.
10:59:25 From Brian The rubber meets the road at the "protocol" on the server, e.g. sitemap or thing that is used...
10:59:47 From Paul Rodwell links within a page use the page context to find pages
10:59:59 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that there's a scaling and organization question about different browsing patterns and different federation site sets for different purposes.
11:01:05 From Jeff Miller Ward considers a frame script to manifest a ghost page with the roster of the current neighborhood - maybe create it in Ward's dojo wiki to try out.
11:02:21 From Jeff Miller Ward and Paul consider what it could look like to drag the wiki neighborhood into a factory or other drop point - maybe on another site?
11:02:57 From Brian Is it another download to upload kind of thing?
11:03:04 From Jeff Miller Brian: yes! Jan took off early
11:03:22 From Brian Yes, I'm expecting a call, but haven't got it yet.
11:03:25 From Jeff Miller (early = evening in Europe0 )
11:05:40 From Brian Thanks all.
11:07:10 From Jeff Miller http://hello.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/view/watch-everything
11:08:36 From Jeff Miller http://hello.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/view/this-months-changes/view/watch-everything/conviv.wiki.foprop.org/welcome-visitors "Mike Hales, tools for conviviality"
11:09:51 From Jeff Miller (deliberate management of neighborhoods on the front page of Tools for Conviviality FedWiki: https://conviv.wiki.foprop.org/view/welcome-visitors )
11:12:51
11:12:51 From Marc Pierson https://newstate.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/item-tag-survey
11:14:54 From Jeff Miller Ward describes supporting Mike Hales' interests with categorizing pages, using tags included in the first paragraph of a page.
11:18:49
11:18:49 From Jeff Miller (Ward and Jeff talk about the FedWiki data model including backlinks, the site map contents, evolution of the site map -- "578 pages with 2-way links" describing ward.dojo.fed.wiki) "Hover over the flag and it will tell you."
11:19:14 From Robert Best Might be nice if the fork button was sort of floating and always visible while you scroll down any page.
11:20:12 From Jeff Miller http://work.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/familiar-workflows I'll go ahead and fork Familiar Workflows! workflows: sequences of moves that work very well in context
11:21:23 From Jeff Miller some of them accidental rather than designed affordances - the accidents are happy, serendipitous simple design favors the possibility of positive accidents
11:24:00
11:24:00 From Jeff Miller if you remove little-used code or little-used workflows, maybe it makes the system cleaner? (example: a particular workflow for using reference pages "the Reference Plugin" as a roster) -> drag a flag from another site onto a factory.
11:25:33 From Jeff Miller oh! that's how you activate a tab in the same window. (Ward demonstrates dragging a flag from one page in a wiki tab up toward a tab from another wiki, then dropping that flag on the factory)
11:28:34
11:28:34 From Robert Best I guess the page panels always fill the screen vertically... So having the fork and add factory buttons always visible and in the same space would also be useful to avoid misclicks with the current implementation that has those buttons moving down as the content of the page gets rendered and grows.
11:29:01 From Jeff Miller "If I open the editor on a reference item, I can use Command-M to change the reference into a page in the lineup, so that you can update the summary of the reference by dragging the page's flag back onto the Factory item which showed up with the Command-M" Ward demonstrates dragging the journal from one page onto another. "In some cases it's helpful for synchronizing page content."
11:29:46 From Paul Rodwell “tries to do it right”, but right might not be the right you are looking for.
11:30:07 From Jeff Miller "best-effort feature, maybe it will be helpful" ? Ward describes dragging the journal as a show-off demonstration feature at a coding camp afternoon.
11:32:05 From Robert Best https://letmegooglethat.com/
11:33:18 From Marc Pierson https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/policy-as-storytelling/view/story-in-six-frames
11:34:45 From Jeff Miller Is there a page there describing Six Questions?
11:35:55 From Jeff Miller https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/policy-as-storytelling/view/story-in-six-frames/view/marcs-six-questions-template there's a six-questions Template "It's a toolkit!" (Marc's Relocalize Creativeity site)
11:37:09 From Jeff Miller Gene Bellinger copyedit: Marc's Relocalize Creativity site.
11:38:10 From Robert Best Yea, you can pin things in kumu... Not sure if that's what he was using.
11:38:20 From Jeff Miller Ward observes that Gene Bellinger's AI-summarized work included Gene setting the location of parts of his system diagrams, that the location was helpful for communicating notions. a reference to Gene's tool: https://docs.kumu.io/about-kumu/what-is-kumu
11:39:27 From Jeff Miller "To have an editor like that in wiki, that maybe you could merge across pages, respecting what items you've deliberately placed?" - Ward
11:39:45 From Robert Best Kumu is free to try and use, and you can have it run off a json file that you host on the web to dynamically change the graph.
11:39:55 From Jeff Miller (Marc and Ward compare the Supercollaborator for composing multiple system diagrams) ty Robert!
11:41:11 From Jeff Miller https://docs.kumu.io/overview/kumu-io-and-kumu-enterprise (kumu.io is the community version) GraphViz and causal loop diagrams are not a good match, because of the way that causal loop diagrams communicate better when deliberately arranged.
11:42:01 From Robert Best https://docs.kumu.io/guides/import/blueprints
11:42:07 From Paul Rodwell maybe https://gojs.net/latest/index.html
11:42:45 From Jeff Miller "GoJS: A Web Framework for Rapidly Building Interactive Diagrams"
11:45:23
11:45:23 From Jeff Miller single-stepping SVGs in an animated form is cute - one of the Glamorous Toolkit folks at Recurse was demonstrating that.
11:46:11 From Robert Best This one has been top of list for me to eventually play with https://js.cytoscape.org/
11:46:23 From Jeff Miller (GoJS being a commercial project of Northwoods Software, https://nwoods.com/about.html )
11:50:08
11:50:08 From Jeff Miller Marc describes recent work as policies and political issues as stories, and considers a local test case.
11:51:12 From Jeff Miller "a story that the mayor and county execs could sit down with the story and use it as a point of discussion - how to retell the story by changing timeline, actors, details"
11:52:30 From Jeff Miller Ward says: "a page, Make Roster from Neighborhood", for Marc's interest in freezing a neighborhood for search. (Or did Eric want it?) (I still need to fork the Workflow page)
11:53:03 From Ward Cunningham http://ward.dojo.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/dojo-practice-yearbooks/view/dojo-practices-2023/view/make-roster
11:54:40 From Marc Pierson Computers in Cognition, Flores and Winograd. On committments.
11:55:20 From Jeff Miller OK I've forked Familiar Workflows (since Photos was my most active site off Dojo for fedwiki work) http://photos.pixiereport.com/view/welcome-visitors/view/federated-wiki/work.fed.wiki/familiar-workflows
11:55:29 From Marc Pierson https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/action-conversation
11:56:10 From Jeff Miller (Ward and Marc discuss the history of details of XP and TDD, and Kent's work together at Tektronix) Beck and Gamma's JUnit I miss the suite() method !
11:57:50 From Jeff Miller Ward points out that the sprinkling of Patterns flavor into JUnit was part of its temptation for adoption, because you can explore it as a sample case for application of Patterns in code; also that it was an attractive package for making testing into high-status work. Eric Evans? Eric "Domain-Driven-Design" Evans
11:59:28 From Jeff Miller Ward: "You couldn't do the same sort of thing as open source, because it was a little tightly tied to the framework." - FIT type adapters. Automated functional testing as a next step beyond automated unit testing.
12:04:53
12:04:53 From Jeff Miller Dijkstra - proof-oriented development TDD - tests as a running executable verification, an alternative (an alternative to proofs)
12:06:01 From Jeff Miller "How to recognize beauty in a program" - Dijkstra's student, giving a presentation at Tektronix.
12:07:25 From Jeff Miller Greg Wilson
12:08:27 From Jeff Miller "Beautiful Code", "Software Design by Example" (JS, Python). Third Bit: https://third-bit.com/
12:09:02 From Paul Rodwell https://wiki.c2.com/?BeautyIsOurBusiness
12:10:29 From Jeff Miller Software Development MFA - Richard Gabriel - software as beautiful art - elegant and enabling. Ward's recollection of a C macro used through the Linux kernel as "beautiful code".
12:11:35 From Jeff Miller (part of a panel at Powell's Books on the release of Beautiful Code)