Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
09:06:22
09:06:22 From Jeff Miller a finder of a sum, product, difference or ratio of digits wiki pages with obvious errors for outside editors to find and fix word break - digit digit digit - word break
09:07:35 From Jeff Miller substitute the number back in from the generated formula concentration rot13 to [...]
09:09:38 From Jeff Miller a publishable version of a document assembled from Thompson-style paragraphs embedded metadata preserved in the editing process accept or reject proposed changes a la Word (or Google Docs Suggest mode)
09:10:46 From Jeff Miller following the example of ObservableHQ, a tiny word bubble in the margin for comments expand the word bubble for discussion, accept or reject
09:12:19 From Brian Maybe adding fedwiki to pandoc is useful at somepoint.
09:12:34 From Jeff Miller oh interesting (me: looking for projects for a coding intensive)
09:13:19 From Brian I really like the idea, to the extent of brainstorming more, of having annotations/comments that can be "pushed" to the original page. Maybe there is a way for non-owners to write to a site...
09:13:53 From Jeff Miller Thompson Morrison was the editor for the collaborative book Non-owners can write via a different client, or a server can render something off a merging-view back end.
09:14:56 From Jeff Miller WYSIAYG (laugh: "what you see is all you got", WYSIAYG) make the editing friendly and not specific to the Wiki front end
09:16:11 From Brian "Memory Palaces"
09:18:07 From Marc Pierson https://eip.relocalizecreativity.net/eip.relocalizecreativity.net/eip-sequences/view/marcs-pattern-sequence/view/eip-sketch/view/copper-corridor-eip-diagram/view/superior-az-ecological-recursions/view/superior-az-political-recursions/view/bellingham-ecological-recursions/view/bellingham-political-recursions/view/city-county-conflict/view/state-federal-gov-conflict/view/managing-domains-of-political-conflict
09:18:08 From Jeff Miller (a side discussion about authors being so familiar with their narrative that they miss the words and are not effective copy editors for themselves) (rhyme, meter, and repetition serve the message being preserved in poetic narratives)
09:20:06 From Jeff Miller concentration <= rot13 => pbapragengvba pragmatic engineering
09:22:07 From Eric Dobbs back in a minute… switching devices
09:22:10 From Jeff Miller ContentEditable element support can support dictation on a mobile browser platform -- but ContentEditable supports interactions that we don't want, like dropping preformatted text
09:24:11 From Jeff Miller "a comment log from our reviewers, the authors can accept and merge changes" Brian asks: we could render those as server commands, proposed Journal entries?
09:25:24 From Jeff Miller Ward says: I was aiming at Croquet as the tool for putting the events into place collaboratively, and pulling back the result into wiki. Perhaps saving the log of conversation would add to a later editing pass. the small plates approach to development
09:26:12 From Marc Pierson “Is it a tree rather than a list?” Is it a semi lattice rather than a tree?
09:26:19 From Jeff Miller do a complete cycle and ask later if something else would help is at a Directed Acyclic Graph
09:26:41 From Marc Pierson Yep!
09:26:49 From Jeff Miller is it a Directed Acyclic Graph (copyediting self) "version control" = document history "revision control" = authorization
09:27:30 From Marc Pierson Revision control will be a very useful idea for improving governance in nested hierarchies.
09:27:49 From Jeff Miller Brian's comparison and contrast of version control and revision control. "change control board approved" etc. "a reviewer can suggest an edit but not approve or reject an edit"
09:28:32 From Marc Pierson Imagine laws in the fedwiki
09:28:33 From Jeff Miller "an author" (an authorized editor" can approve or reject an edit imagine laws on the blockchain. :(
09:29:06 From Marc Pierson I don’t know much about “the blockchain”
09:29:13 From Jeff Miller though the point there is that everyone has a faithful copy of the edit history
09:29:26 From Eric Dobbs Ward, Ink&Switch’s thoughts on peritext might be valuable for this case. https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/ “Collaborative editors like Google Docs allow people to work on a rich-text document in real-time, which is convenient when users want to immediately see each others’ changes. However, sometimes people prefer a more asynchronous collaboration style, where they can work on a private copy of a document for a while and share their updates later.”
09:29:35 From Jeff Miller a Git repository is a bit of a distributed ledger so it's not a terrible idea
09:30:08 From Paul Rodwell also Upwelling https://www.inkandswitch.com/upwelling/
09:30:18 From Marc Pierson I want people to create and use the laws as they (as a group) choose and apologize or negotiant with the powers that be.
09:30:51 From Jeff Miller Ward's notion of the copy-editing cycle authors send the drafts out for a week of edits reviewers send in edits within a week authors run through the suggested edits perhaps a couple of cycles of draft, review, re-draft,
09:31:47 From Marc Pierson Show the legislators the laws that you are using or are willing to use. Good kings ask subject to do what they were going to do anyway.
09:31:54 From Paul Rodwell I wonder if the ink and switch project is close to what is needed. > In the Upwelling project we have built an experimental editor that aims to satisfy the needs of professional writers and editors. It allows co-authors to collaborate in real time when they wish to, but it also supports work on private drafts that can be shared and merged only when their authors are ready. By combining elements of real-time collaboration with ideas from version control systems, Upwelling supports writers in maintaining their creative privacy and editors in ensuring accurate results.
09:32:07 From Jeff Miller sub/paragraph1/paragraph2/ in a single button (for a paragraph with one fix in wording) hmm, Ink and Switch keeps crossing my path
09:33:20 From Jeff Miller "professional NON-fiction writers" okay Upwelling. :)
09:34:17 From Marc Pierson I am hoping, with your help over time, to harness AI (ChatGPT) to find information for neighborhoods AND populate fedwiki pages and clickable graphs.
09:35:24 From Jeff Miller ChatGPT, properly backed by authoritative data, could be a good Cliffs Notes style summarizer?
09:35:33 From Brian Replying to "I wonder if the ink ..." https://www.inkandswitch.com/upwelling/
09:36:09 From Jeff Miller (imagining the data flow diagram of producing a book)
09:36:15 From Marc Pierson The authoritative perspective always comes from the members of the neighborhood activism.
09:36:54 From Jeff Miller I'm wondering how well modern conversational agents can be told "summarize these pieces of information HERE" ?
09:37:42 From Brian https://www.inkandswitch.com/upwelling/
09:38:48 From Jeff Miller https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/ (previous reassembling a document algorithm and prototype) CRDT approach to distributed consensus (also touches Brian's question of Journal edits)
09:39:56 From Jeff Miller since a CRDT is a document which recognizes and preserves incremental changes.
09:42:41
09:42:41 From Jeff Miller Ward considers a document linked to a Croquet model, and the participants would be collaborating on the model. For all the collaborative attributes that Wiki and Croquet don't have, disconnected / reconnected cases might touch (the cases covered by the Ink and Switch tools). Brian considers different sorts of edits: * small local changes * structure and flow, like "these paragraphs need to be exchanged" * conversation with the author with question and answer prompting a broader revision
09:43:56 From Jeff Miller Different tools could support different collaborative editing forms among those.
09:45:05 From Jeff Miller Ward describes Thompson's form of the authors getting together and discussing their individual stories, in rota, to encourage each author's story to be more particular; at the same time, the authors were referring to shared material called The Garden
09:46:17 From Jeff Miller and Thompson enforced a well-formed page structure with specific links, from each author's story to the shared garden, and for pages within the garden Thompson also enforced a depth -- how many levels of link did pages need to be adjacent to each other.
09:47:49 From Jeff Miller But in assembling the book, in selecting only 120 items from the garden, Thompson needed to cut pointers from the included garden pages to the excluded pages; instead, those links need to point within the corpus of pages which will become the book.
09:49:10 From Jeff Miller The pages relating to the redirected links on each side might need a little editing to make the words and ideas flow within the pages which will fall inside the book. a philosopher of education a curriculum designer an educator having their stories and their reference points in the garden pages aligned in understanding and purpose
09:50:45 From Jeff Miller Thompson's one-off workflow used custom tooling that he, Ward, and Paul worked on (did Eric add, as well?) Ward is considering the cases for Thompson's next book, to bring some of the editing flow closer to Federated Wiki.
09:52:59 From Jeff Miller This week, Thompson and Ward reviewed the workflow. "You have a better memory than me for what I did" -T / "I only had to consider what I was doing to support your work, you were dealing with many people and all the book material" - W
09:53:13 From Ward Cunningham http://ward.dojo.fed.wiki/how-we-wrote-that-book.html http://blog.ward.dojo.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/think-and-write/view/draft-and-copyedit/view/mock-doc-copyedit/view/mock-doc-i#
09:53:50 From Jeff Miller how "The Joyful Sandbox" was written
09:54:54 From Jeff Miller a term that Jamie used early in discussions, it was named and noticed and made into a page naming your thoughts makes them ready to be part of an idea garden
09:56:09 From Jeff Miller Thompson and his co-authors liked writing in this way. Wiki, with small blank pages, already named with a short phrase, became prompts for unfolding a name into an understanding. a deeper structure match for people to share and compare experiences
09:57:46 From Jeff Miller Thompson's discipline of creating and linking pages was a support for turning the concepts into a story and a shared body of knowledge. Thompson's experience at Dayton High School, demonstrating how he taught a class of technology innovation, earned him credibility to do more.
09:59:43 From Jeff Miller Ward calls on Marc's experience sharing his ideas, of convincing people by demonstrating how to think about making positive change -- that these are approaches in common with Thompson's.
10:01:18 From Jeff Miller And that the folks assembled here are boosters of both Marc and Thompson's intentions for success.
10:02:24 From Jeff Miller Marc has news from Chris in Superior, Arizona - the National Institutes of Health are interested in his work. The tools for revealing patterns in the community are showing things that provide interesting angles for the NIH.
10:04:02 From Jeff Miller If we stay small enough and focused enough on tools and progress, we can weather any bumps that come from outside attention. The EIP sketches and sequences (Marc demonstrates) are "cave drawing" where everyone can see their role represented, where they can see themselves in the process of collaboration and progress.
10:05:17 From Jeff Miller "cave drawings" where everyone can see their role represented
10:06:25 From Jeff Miller https://eip.relocalizecreativity.net/view/eip-sequences/view/marcs-pattern-sequence/view/eip-sketch "my wish: if I click on the Cave Drawing Sketch item in the Marc's Pattern Sequence, I want to see all the arrows coming in and going out, like the Supercollaborator"
10:07:50 From Jeff Miller Ward says: my tool was to hover over a node on a full screen, and you could try different layouts. Ward says: we have that for the case where the input is our separate graph objects, but when it's been rendered into the screen. ... it's not as easy to show.
10:09:33 From Jeff Miller Eric suggests that parsing the titles of a GraphViz diagram, you could reconstruct links and nodes from those titles. "Could you do this with a lineup-aware script?" Marc says: "Where this has to go is our own version of Neo4J, where there is a shared underlying representation for us to navigate."
10:10:55 From Jeff Miller So: "Food in my house" would be something that would be backed by connections in the graph.
10:12:14 From Jeff Miller https://eip.relocalizecreativity.net/view/eip-sequences/view/marcs-pattern-sequence/view/eip-sketch/view/copper-corridor-eip-diagram Marc suggests: could ChatGPT do a good summary of each of the levels? (of the eco-bio-physical nested environments?)
10:13:56 From Jeff Miller Marc tried this out for political recursions in Superior, and for Bellingham Ecological Recursions Marc says: the output from ChatGPT was an impressive summary, and I dropped in the output and added wiki links
10:15:06 From Jeff Miller [brb crows]
10:25:23
10:25:23 From Jeff Miller crows and coffee what did I miss?
10:26:51 From Brian The conflicts are where domains overlap/intersect.
10:26:52 From Jeff Miller Peter D. describes conversational agents and language models as useful ways of summarizing content.
10:27:01 From Brian Or where resources need to be shared.
10:27:28 From Jeff Miller Google Search can restrict search to a given site, "site:ibm.com Watson" say do URLs have semantic meaning? mostly not, these days
10:28:12 From Marc Pierson https://cob.org/services
10:28:14 From Jeff Miller https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aibm.com+watson
10:28:49 From Brian Unfortunately, my recent experiences with google are that it is becoming less useful rapidly....being dominated by Ads or some sort of incentivised prioritization.
10:29:31 From Jeff Miller yes, similar experience to Brian, but the "site:" designator helps a lot, I do a lot of site:en.wikipedia.org queries. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acob.org+water "Look on the City of Bellingham domain sites for water"
10:31:25 From Jeff Miller Peter suggests: "AI is a new way of indexing content" (and is subject to similar corruption to web search content, in that context)
10:31:50 From Brian I bind 'w' to the wikipedia search, so I can start the url with w thing_to_look_for
10:32:08 From Jeff Miller Reacted to "I bind 'w' to the wi..." with 👍 legal precedents held in private databases such as Westlaw (but that doesn't stop lawyers from using ChatGPT, oops)
10:33:38 From Jeff Miller Marc says: if you can show the City Council what you need, in context, then they will often be helpful to local needs.
10:34:39 From Brian I'm very suspicous of an "idealized" design... Ideal is very time, situation, context dependent.
10:35:36 From Jeff Miller Marc says: if you have a notion of good design for government structure, and you have an existing structure, than you can do Alexandrian transformations to nondestructively move things toward the structure that would be more lively and responsive Brian reflects: two-thirds of my town's population is "low-tax, no-growth", one-third is slightly younger, interested in having enough of a downtown so you don't have to drive thirty miles to get a hamburger.
10:37:37 From Jeff Miller Marc says: I don't want to discuss ideologies. I want to discuss specific problems and solutions. If you get three hundred mothers down on the courthouse steps, you will get political movement.
10:40:26
10:40:26 From Jeff Miller (a side discussion about how different neighborhoods set rules; are adjacent neighborhoods with conflicting rules - how do you resolve those?)
10:41:35 From Jeff Miller fireworks on the Indian reservation (top-level laws) liquor across the state line
10:41:44 From Marc Pierson https://robina.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors
10:41:54 From Jeff Miller Robin Asby Thinking Systems, An Organic Language of Harmony for Human Survival
10:44:56
10:44:56 From Brian "corporations" are people...lol :(
10:46:22 From Brian Can we rename/refactor page titles?
10:47:37 From Jeff Miller Peter points to the power of language in framing this well; that smart people can go deep and understand things well, but making those understandings known requires the art of clear language.
10:48:23 From Marc Pierson The fedwiki is about writing and thinking and drawing and communication for a better world, local to global. In my opinion.
10:48:33 From Jeff Miller "rename/refactor page titles" - I actually don't know, within Federated Wiki, how that works, because pages are federated by title.
10:50:34 From Jeff Miller Words without diagrams don't carry a lot of water - Marc; so thanks to Ward and Eric for building those links from words and connections in to diagrams. Eric says: ... structure-preserving transformations? Thinking about work. Here's a team at a small scale that has a recurring incident that has a pattern, it isn't the same in all respects, but is the same in a characteristic way...
10:51:52 From Jeff Miller ...the levers the team has to pull are local, but the source of the problem is structural at a different level.
10:51:56 From Marc Pierson Eric can you create diagrams that make this clear???
10:52:02 From Jeff Miller (Conway's Law as a jail) "the code that is problematic is driven by forces outside the team" maybe?
10:53:09 From Brian Add another layer of caching... /S
10:53:18 From Ward Cunningham Eric needs a version of the EIP that describes the governance and ecology surrounding the teams that need to work together.
10:53:37 From Jeff Miller "it's often easier to go up the chain of calls and ask a different part of the organization to change how they address the subsystem under pressure" Eric says: Marc, this recalls your thought -- that intervention needs to happen at the right level.
10:54:14 From Brian There could be some "cost" exerted, to provide the feedback to the right place. Like, if a chunk of code is too slow for the rate, then as information gathering think, actually make it 100x slower and see who squeals.
10:56:02 From Brian I think "designing from scratch" is almost always wrong...
10:56:05 From Jeff Miller Jeff recalls Residuality Theory of your system architecture as the result of past decisions and responses - that from each level, there are perspectives which address the past issues, but may leave aside the perspectives needed. Eric describes the case where examining the form of the problem suggests rearranging the workflow in a way that would change the meaningful structure.
10:57:45 From Jeff Miller Marc suggests a diagrammatic view that shows the pieces of the puzzle, that there is a governance structure
10:58:25 From Marc Pierson The Ecology part is the REAL physical, chemical, technical world
10:58:32 From Jeff Miller Ward brings up the question of whether there's a common analogy to the ecological domain, let's say the technical architecture of the datacenter, the choice of languages, the provisioning of services
10:58:46 From Marc Pierson The political and institution is the social, (social science????)
10:59:22 From Jeff Miller so an EIP diagram for Eric's work situation might have a governance diagram based on the company structure, and an ecology diagram based on the data and flow and inputs and outputs and mechanisms and in the middle, the get-things-done teams work under governance for the purposes of making things better in the context of the technical ecology (don't throw your trash in my backyard, my backyard's full) :)
11:00:24 From Paul Rodwell computer architectures, data structures
11:00:54 From Jeff Miller Marc considers that the technical architecture might have a nesting structure that could be fruitful to explore.
11:01:59 From Peter Dimitrios I think that wisdom may be able to be communicated via stories, Iwriting 'articles' or papers with a good story makes it digestible. Using fedwiki to gather and structure thoughts and then reading it is one kind of 'story'
11:02:17 From Paul Rodwell a swarm of little machines in a cloud (distributed)
11:02:41 From Jeff Miller Eric says, re what we're doing in software, we're producing tiny electronic organisms, little machines -- but what we're doing is managing an ecosystem of services at various levels, and we think that we're making rational decisions within our view, but the more broadly connected world of networked and cloud-provisioned computing keeps pulling the rug out from under the narrow design.
11:03:05 From Peter Dimitrios But I think you need to write more linear stories for broad consumption
11:03:28 From Jeff Miller Peter: I think you're right, selecting compelling stories that tell you where people are paying attention to the right or wrong things, or when you might get surprised. Brian: winning in the short term, or winning in the long term, are interesting stories.
11:04:02 From Marc Pierson Peter, say more, please.
11:04:13 From Peter Dimitrios I wonder if an LLM could give a nice first draft of given your particular wiki as source
11:04:34 From Jeff Miller flopping back and forth between "public cloud" and "on-prem cloud" based on looking carefully at the tradeoffs
11:05:39 From Marc Pierson Again, Peter, I need you to talk. I need more clues.
11:05:42 From Jeff Miller (discussion of how to manage things at compile time, at build time, at run time)
11:06:13 From Peter Dimitrios Unfortunately good stories do not beg to be true (look at conspiracy theories etc)
11:08:25 From Paul Rodwell capacity planning…
11:09:01 From Jeff Miller Brian says: when your cloud was on-prem, you could do your own optimizations of load and provisioning. But you could do the same sorts of optimization in public cloud.
11:10:04 From Jeff Miller Eric points out: moving to public cloud means that there is an entirely different set of skills, those of persuading the customer support staff of your computer service vendors, to move you up the level of the support teams to get up to a high level who will help you support your needs for scheduling. Ward says: communicating effectively with the vendor -- is that the right side, governance, or the left side, the data service ecology?
11:12:18 From Jeff Miller Eric says: it's a sociotechnical system, where politics are part on each side; superficially I could map our org chart onto the political side, the governance side; but there's a parallel technical hierarchy of which engineers have what expertise and credibility, maybe both of those mash into the governance circles. the domain of experts? forestry managers? water flow and erosion specialists?
11:13:46 From Jeff Miller Marc hears: okay, there are the decision makers and rule makers, the executives; but I'm also hearing Robin Asby's "house of experts" in the technical experties. It's not clear that every employee is a citizen of every level, in your organization. Marc says: it would be better if the hospital system chief would be a person who saw the hospital system across states as a unit, where everyone was part of that, rather than folks seeing only their immediate peers and levels above and below.
11:15:44 From Jeff Miller Marc says: do you have a reciprocal, homeostatic relationship with your vendor? Do you have an out of sync side, where you get delays or oscillations? Or maybe you have an authoritarian relationship with your vendor. Eric reflects: I need sociotechnical structure on the right, the blue side... the technology gets mapped into the ecology
11:17:29 From Brian You might be able to compare a couple cloud vendors, an on prem solution, or something else in the context of the CSLs to have a compelling story...
11:17:37 From Jeff Miller Marc says: yes, in the world of your business, the parts of the ecology are independent, in some sense, of an individual vendor, that you can have other providers of connections to the ecosystem.
11:18:38 From Marc Pierson “Micro habitat level”
11:18:39 From Brian Those things are very hardware dependent as well. All sorts of backbones in racks, intra-rack, etc.
11:19:06 From Jeff Miller Eric says, okay, the expertise of data scientists, who understand very tight little binary optimizations for memory, CPU, L1 and L2 cache, that should be reflected somewhere in the right side, the granular optimization; there's a mismatch of expertise in the folks who have governance about different parts of the computation flow. The folks who are trying to manage the datacenter job loads and provisioning are at odds with the folks who need tighter control on the Linux kernel, the drivers, the network performance, data localization
11:20:25 From Jeff Miller Ward points out to the House of Experts in Asby as a useful point of reflection into Eric's case -- how is the House of Experts reflected up and down the hierarchy.
11:21:07 From Marc Pierson Reputation, turnover etc
11:21:22 From Jeff Miller Brian says: what is the objective function you're maximizing? perhaps it all turns into dollars? Are the dimensions all aligned in that way, or are there other issues like turnover?
11:23:07 From Marc Pierson https://marc.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/tetrahedron-
11:23:07 From Jeff Miller Eric reflects that it's easier these days to say "engineers are cheap, turnover is okay" SRECon 2023?
11:23:29 From Marc Pierson Identify ideals and organizational priorities and find ways to close the loop. Slack
11:24:06 From Brian If there is a 2nd 40+ hour week, it's a sign of project management problem, not performance problem.
11:24:12 From Jeff Miller https://www.usenix.org/conference/srecon23americas
11:25:38 From Brian I think a lot of the "cheap" silicon money perterbed the landscape of a lot of systems for a while.It allowed a lot of inefficiency to last a lot longer than would be expected.
11:25:49 From Marc Pierson I got out of medicine. I run an AirBnB and volunteer with neighborhood leaders. And I am very happy with this life and life style. Of course each of you are pat of my happiness.
11:25:51 From Jeff Miller Ironies of Automation combined with the sheer math of combinatorics, and the growth of complexity
11:26:16 From Paul Rodwell systems tend to become more complex over time as it is a lot easier in the moment than keeping it simple
11:27:26 From Brian AWS is going to start charging for IPv4 addresses soon.
11:28:14 From Marc Pierson It is good to be able to move out of you parents house…
11:29:16 From Jeff Miller the canaries in the data mines Brian recalls a conversation with Martin Fowler about XP: "Change the organization you work for... or change the organization you work for."
11:31:56
11:31:56 From Marc Pierson One of many things that I like about hanging out with you guys is that most of you know the whole history of the technology. You are not lost in the shadows.
11:32:05 From Jeff Miller Deno canvas API
11:33:38 From Paul Rodwell deno canvas - https://deno.land/x/canvas@v1.4.1 - canvas kit WASM - https://github.com/google/skia/tree/main/modules/canvaskit
11:33:51 From Eric Dobbs Martin Fowler at XP Denver decades ago (mighta already been renamed to Agile Denver at the time I heard him) “business logic is an oxymoron”
11:35:34 From Marc Pierson Can I show you something weird in FedWiki in google
11:35:50 From Paul Rodwell Replying to "deno canvas - https:..." ported from…
11:36:05 From Marc Pierson It resolves in other browsers. Does not go away when I clear the cache.
11:36:26 From Jeff Miller in Google Chrome, FedWiki behaves strangely?
11:37:03 From Paul Rodwell Reacted to "Can I show you somet..." with 😱
11:37:57 From Jeff Miller Ward discusses the Supercollaborator as something that looks like a standalone webapp but it's hosted on the Wiki asset structure.
11:38:08 From Marc Pierson We still will need a new version of El Dorado. :>)
11:38:47 From Brian Ward could use another new Raspberry Pi. :)
11:39:29 From Jeff Miller If you want to do something on the server, it helps to have a server you want to redirect some requests to. Deno, in their free tier, you can take something that's written as Deno server code, and publish it to their network. (Ward discusses Deno as a script usable for both browser and server applications)
11:41:01 From Jeff Miller Between client code knocked off quickly as asset folders, running in a browser tab, and Deno, running the same code with a rapid startup, both client and server have rapid evolution.
11:42:23 From Jeff Miller Ward's experience of the Deno discord server is one where they have gone to a level where they're interested in enterprise concerns -- but they want to do it better. They have a SaaS kit, which is built on a server kit, done with finesse.
11:42:32 From Brian https://deno.com/
11:42:38 From Eric Dobbs https://fresh.deno.dev/
11:42:54 From Jeff Miller There are different Discord channels for Deno's Fresh and SaaS Kit.
11:44:11 From Paul Rodwell pushing functions to the edge
11:44:15 From Brian Fastly would be a place I'd look at working, based on some talks and social media places I've seen.
11:44:16 From Jeff Miller Eric suggests that there is a confluence of code mechanisms, dissatisfaction with Kubernetes, there's a notion of deploying fast, light edge functions. That going to edge computing, close to the customer, and then having ways of getting access to customer-specific data under the hood - maybe regionally replicated customer data in S3
11:46:25 From Brian The compute at edge and compute in Kubernetes styles both seem monopolistic and wish it would go back to more small scale developer shops...
11:46:37 From Jeff Miller A WASM service provider, holding the edge computing, is one part of the trajectory of the industry; the other is doubling down on server based management, Kubernetes, containers.
11:46:54 From Eric Dobbs Reacted to "The compute at edge ..." with ➕
11:47:12 From Brian As soon as WASM is pervasive, we'll have DRM websites...not sure it's going to be a better world.
11:47:45 From Paul Rodwell need to leave…
11:47:45 From Jeff Miller "If I can twist my code a little bit and use it to exercise an industry path, that could be a useful angle - join the Deno discord"
11:47:56 From Marc Pierson Can I show you something in FedWiki?
11:49:49 From Jeff Miller Marc shows Omnigraffle exported SVGs coming apart in Google Chrome, but which look okay in Safari.
11:50:04 From Brian https://inkscape.org/ is a great SVG drawing tool.
11:50:08 From Jeff Miller https://patterns.relocalizecreativity.net/view/integrating-drawings
11:50:21 From Eric Dobbs See it in Firefox too:
11:52:04 From Jeff Miller The screenshot shows imperfect background coloring of the EIP diagrams, where the green background is disappearing on the eco-bio-physical world, and half the blue background is missing from the geo-political world.
11:55:35
11:55:35 From Jeff Miller "first SVG wins" within a lineup multiple Omnigraffle SVGs within a lineup a name collision in Chrome and Firefox, but Safari does a good job in namespacing the SVGs
11:58:38
11:58:38 From Jeff Miller Ward says: there are two causes; SVG uses global scopes with regard to a single document, using href bindings. Eric says: and HTML5 lets SVG be embedded as first-class elements alongside the HTML5 elements.
12:01:43
12:01:43 From Jeff Miller "If they are exactly the same SVG, the same defs, then it doesn't matter which defs are used" Eric considers an "enrich SVG" as a way of rewriting the defs
12:03:04 From Jeff Miller Eric says: if the HTML plugin for FedWiki for sanitization, we could live-process a separate prefix into SVG defs and prime it for what the browser doesn't understand. DOMPurify right now is used to sanitize HTML in the client. Wiki item text -> processed using DOMPurify and other code, DOMPurify last -> svgs with unique defs IDs on a page
12:05:17 From Jeff Miller Eric says: yes - every bugfix, every robustness improvement, adds complexity to the system.
12:05:28 From Brian Fixing bugs increases complexity if the fix is more specific. If the fix is to tighten the abstraction, the complexity should reduce complexity.
12:05:45 From Jeff Miller Jeff: maybe? it's typical to fix with more code, rather than removing code.
12:06:59 From Jeff Miller Marc reflects that copy/paste in Omnigraffle might have been a thing for the green and blue columns.
12:08:29 From Jeff Miller "hey Omnigraffle, we love your tool and want to use it more, but we're having trouble with exports"