Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
10:08:16
10:08:16 From Jeff Miller plumber day in Seattle software management: you're smart kids, figure it out
10:09:40 From Jeff Miller local copy of ghost page as collaborative editing space (Brian) consistent stable pattern and style (run a style checker to re-ghost your ghost?)
10:10:51 From Jeff Miller a croquet ground page? (collaboration support) freezable to an ordinary page, or snapshottable "How long should a collaborative page remain open?" a synchronous edit (we're all looking at the same thing at the same time)
10:12:10 From Jeff Miller Ward advises that a Frame plugin can run a shared chat. There's Croquet, using an event reflector to serialize events reliably. Maybe a PARAGRAPH authoring system would be the right granularity
10:13:23 From Jeff Miller and then the paragraph (item...) could be pulled into an individual wiki "make me the page that has these as paragraphs" and then that could be the result "what do we REALLY want" once we have something working
10:14:35 From Jeff Miller like "can we drag things in?" which isn't really something that the Frame plugin can do in an obvious way.
10:14:57 From Robert Best Ephemeral chat
10:14:58 From Jeff Miller Croquet's demo program is a chat program, for example; we could go back to that to remind ourselves how to put Croquet in a frame. (or Firebase, which is where I saw this in the past: a live code share) That was really interesting to see when I was doing a code interview. a collaborative coding notebook.
10:16:07 From Jeff Miller (people keep reinventing Google Wave) Paul suggests that a Matrix channel might be a place to host the content of a chat that had useful properties that we are currently getting from transcripts, but better. (to Ward's question of where the chat should be)
10:18:15 From Paul Rodwell Hydrogen matrix client - https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web
10:19:12 From Jeff Miller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ridge_Parkway "runs for 469mi / 755km through Virginia and North Carolina, linking Shenandoah NP to Great Smoky Mountains NP".
10:20:35 From Jeff Miller I have learned how valuable the JSON module is by trying to operate in Node 12 which is missing "require JSON". (to Ward's use of JSON for serialization)
10:21:02 From Brian Google claims that structuredClone(value) is able to do that in recent JavaScript.
10:21:07 From Jeff Miller (which is what I wanted to do, following the example in the NodeJS documentation, which failed!) NodeJS v12 is not recent JavaScript, alas.
10:22:47 From Brian https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/structuredClone
10:23:22 From Jeff Miller ty! NodeJS docs played me false by referring to JSON in the v12 examples; MDN docs have been better than rock solid for me.
10:24:35 From Jeff Miller Node.js v17.0.0 has structuredClone (looking up JSON in the MDN docs now)
10:25:51 From Jeff Miller the Leaflet map centers on Grand Central Station at noon local :) (instead of Zero Zero Island)
10:28:31
10:28:31 From Jeff Miller (now I'm confused by Node, maybe I didn't need to require JSON)
10:30:11 From Jeff Miller sigh, it's a built-in object that I didn't need to import
10:31:53 From Jeff Miller (Ward has been demonstrating templating of pages, where the ghost page is created with a map structure for a travel case; when does one want to use "Create" for "Re-Create" in this case, to give a sensible journal?) Today's theme has included one-day projects, the adjacent possible. Brian suggests structuredClone yes, supported from v99 of Chrome
10:32:55 From Jeff Miller https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/structuredClone
10:35:49
10:35:49 From Jeff Miller JSON based clones considered as a limited case of cloning, and what they don't support (e.g. references)
10:37:10 From Jeff Miller also JSON based cloning is not good at user-defined objects getTitle(...null...) -> "empty" as a generic default approach getType(...null...) item -> "paragraph" ? The Journal is considered advisory (Ward)
10:38:18 From Jeff Miller versus reliable for playback Ward says: I'm inclined to keep my little "freeze" thing because it's useful in some cases, despite corrupting the journal, but not to promote it.
10:39:57 From Jeff Miller Ward says: if a FedWiki client view tab is given junk, it should produce junk as rendering, but it should not crash. Brian asks: if you consider the Journal as something you can float over and inspect, is that a something we want to call by a different name?
10:41:56 From Jeff Miller Ward says: the journal is also a source for the federated search context, and any internal links on page items are implicitly pointers to the source page. A failed search case will cause wiki to look at the sources in the journal.
10:45:35
10:45:35 From Jeff Miller Ward points out Paul's observation that the way we construct the search neighborhood on a forked page versus the search neighborhood for clicking through to a remote page are different in detail.
10:45:54 From Brian Still muted Viki.
10:45:59 From Jeff Miller art in dialogue with photography, representation in dialogue with impression (I was just watching a presentation on cultural movements, art movements) (...and software architecture)
10:47:48 From Jeff Miller Viki: "in art, the exception is the rule" Ward; "if you follow every rule, the result is trite?" Viki: "the rules are present as support; but Western art has a tradition of rule-breaking"
10:48:08 From Brian THis last week, I was tuned in a lot more of the 3 parts/channels of communication. The text (the part that is spoken), the setting (the context where the words are said), and the subtext, which is the part that is "spoken" but not explicitly and how using subtext can convey so much more depth to the conversation.
10:48:38 From Paul Rodwell “Searching for Justice in Programming Language Design” by Amy Ko (2023) - https://www.washington.edu/doit/webinars/?webinar=wordplay
10:48:51 From Brian For pleasant surprises, I think setting the expectation of a, and then keeping to that expectation for 80% and allowing for 20% to be the twist/surprise.
10:49:13 From viki ubu.wiki
10:49:14 From Jeff Miller Eric spent a summer studying mathematical appreciation for the technique of using perspective; you can do things that look good but are not correct. http://ubu.wiki ? Hola mundo! "a wildcard DNS for ethnopoetics and systems research. Anyone with a browser can participate." oh cool!
10:50:25 From Jeff Miller the secret art club! oh gosh now I should choose a name
10:53:51
10:53:51 From Jeff Miller Jeff says: Viki, your experience trying to convey what Federated Wiki and wiki farms are interesting to me because of my confusion getting oriented at the beginning of FedWiki.
10:55:51 From Jeff Miller Ward observes that the new site claiming works with a Google identity. Viki says that it's been interesting to try and set up the ubu.wiki site to be useful for people who need HTTPS. "break any relationships with non-HTTPS sites" only my CV is https, and it was a deliberate exercise HTTPS = anointed by cert authorities
10:56:59 From Jeff Miller (which cert authorities are heretical?)
10:59:17 From Brian Is anti-https it's own cult? ;)
10:59:29 From Jeff Miller it's a critique "endorsed driver's license" / "probabilistic proof of identity"
11:01:49 From Jeff Miller (a discussion of HTTPS and HTTP; the evolution of "reliable" [not subject to corruption at the protocol level, like content injection or password stealing, Firesheep] as a focus on the wrong things?) we can scale to Dunbar's number worth of brands? (versus people)
11:02:55 From Jeff Miller Brian talks about human social evolution as way beyond the evolved scale; we don't have intuitions for the right feedback pressures. "if I misbehave in my community..." "if I harass you on Twitter..." GamerGate and being "cancelled'
11:03:39 From Marc Pierson I am doing my best to be a good guest so I will leave for dinner. If we finish before this call is over I will be back.
11:03:52 From Brian Enjoy your dinner Marc.
11:04:05 From Jeff Miller reputation not being transferrable and clear in other contexts Ward talks about being cosmopolitan - a positive aspect of being able to live peacefully in an organization full of difference.
11:05:07 From Jeff Miller Brian says: (artist and art context) Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoons, and Scott Adams' politics. see Jo Freeman on Trashing clique-bait
11:06:10 From Jeff Miller cliques and claques
11:06:51 From Paul Rodwell the cartoon went subscription only
11:09:12 From Jeff Miller open source licensing as an ethical question with many sharp edges Mastodon as exactly the problem which Ward is pointing out - who do you federate with? There are "bad server lists"
11:10:12 From Paul Rodwell wiki wars https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ng9j
11:10:18 From Jeff Miller The EU trying to legislate things which could break cooperation. "I can ruthlessly criticise actions while respecting people" - Brian.
11:10:58 From Paul Rodwell The Mysterious Wikipedia Editor - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3csws6q
11:11:28 From Jeff Miller "We don't support, condone, or think favorably of [these topics or conversation styles], and we recommend [these styles]."
11:13:07 From Jeff Miller Ward observes; being pull-based has a lot of immunity to some of this, but being push-based is more convenient. Mastodon already has some of these things -- for example, "nobody can follow people on our site unless they're individually approved."
11:14:28 From Jeff Miller me: Hachyderm dot io has marked "Low Quality Facts" as an unreliable account for following. Ward reflects on follower spam on Twitter. "if you put something out there, who is it enabling?"
11:15:30 From Jeff Miller Brian observes that it's good practice for all of us to practice critical reflection about information sources.
11:16:15 From viki I don’t mean to break the rules as much as I do probably 😣
11:16:27 From Jeff Miller "Our digital skills should be good enough to filter obviously too-good or doubtful assertions."
11:16:33 From Brian Viki breaks the rules, but in a rule following way. :)
11:16:48 From Jeff Miller What are the expensive proofs of reliability?
11:17:03 From viki Aw thanks Brian I want to be at least 51% good and innovate but don’t have a lot of identity bound up in REBELLION Wiki rules are elegant
11:17:55 From Paul Rodwell https://clark.libguides.com/evaluating-information/SIFT
11:18:01 From Jeff Miller "if this appears to be a newspaper, then... how old is that newspaper? does it have other endorsements of reality? does it have a point of view, rather than being an appearance for deceptive purposes?" large language models: automated plausible nonsense
11:19:04 From Paul Rodwell SIFT on Mike’s site https://hapgood.us/2019/06/19/sift-the-four-moves/
11:20:17 From Jeff Miller Mike Caulfield - an advocate of critical work on online knowledge.
11:21:43 From Jeff Miller WARNING: FAKE HALLOWEEN CANDY USB Flash Drives Filled With Banned Books!
11:24:20
11:24:20 From viki https://www.ubuweb.com/resources/top_tens.html
11:24:41 From Paul Rodwell https://ubu.com/sound/wolf.html
11:26:33 From viki http://chess.viki.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/duchamps-endgame-problem/view/white-to-play-and-win
11:28:41 From Jeff Miller http://failbetter.ubu.wiki/view/welcome-visitors
11:30:52 From Jeff Miller https://favicon.png/ (on the login pop-up)
11:31:35 From Ward Cunningham http://wardo.ubu.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/ward-is-draw
11:45:44
11:45:44 From Brian I wonder if some cli tools wouldn't be better for that sort of system administration of a farm, rather than through the GUI...
11:49:05
11:49:05 From Brian 14.4k was screaming compared to the 4800 or 9600...it was a big deal...
11:52:09
11:52:09 From Brian And the cost of being wrong is sufficient to justify some additional overhead.
11:52:54 From Jeff Miller doctors versus lawyers
11:57:06
11:57:06 From Brian We were talking about recipe sites a while ago, but am eating wild rice and mushroom soup and goes really well with some chedder cheese biscuits. https://dishingouthealth.com/wild-rice-mixed-mushroom-soup/
11:57:56 From Jeff Miller CLI tools for system-administration (Brian) - It used to be that you could pop up a shell to look at the internals of a site.
11:59:07 From Brian Has a litter of kittens somewhere...lol.
12:02:45
12:02:45 From Brian The `git push --force …` I'm going on vacation for two weeks...
12:05:03 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four_(disambiguation)
12:05:08 From Jeff Miller Ron Jeffries -- has his own blog, and an a subscription study group; the on-site spokesperson for Kent Beck. Zoom oopsied the last ) but Wikipedia found it.
12:07:51
12:07:51 From Brian https://ronjeffries.com/
12:08:54 From viki I wish for one day projects to learn javascript
12:09:16 From Jeff Miller I like how much you can do with one-day projects in Javascript. http://aristobit.com/ or one-page web toys
12:09:40 From Brian I learned Perl with https://xp123.com/articles/test-first-challenge/
12:10:05 From Jeff Miller oh cool! (I am actually looking for code exercises so I'm better prepared for start-from-zero stuff)
12:12:34 From Brian We'll find out which systems haven't been updated for a few decades...
12:12:42 From viki Reacted to "I learned Perl with ..." with 😃
12:12:42 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
12:12:48 From viki Reacted to "http://aristobit.com..." with 😃
12:13:00 From Brian Linux has been using 64 bits for quite a while now.
12:13:08 From Jeff Miller Google wrote its own payroll / check runner. I wonder if C3 inspired them? Of course Google wrote its own calendar system, out of spite at Oracle Calendar.
12:15:43
12:15:43 From Jeff Miller "Piper", Google's implementation of the back end of Perforce when Perforce hit its limits and they got tired of partitioning the servers.
12:17:09 From Paul Rodwell https://calpaterson.com/bank-python.html
12:17:19 From Jeff Miller "Bank Python" -- a separately evolved ecosystem. Brian reflects that the origin story of Erlang also is a fascinating tale of the constraints producing a solution.
12:19:21 From Jeff Miller and to bring it full circle, Rob Mee is picking up Elixir / BEAM (on Erlang) to run services (Mechanical Orchard).
12:19:26 From viki Thank you all for your contributions to my brain and vision
12:19:37 From Paul Rodwell https://serokell.io/blog/history-of-erlang-and-elixir