Text extraction. See Typescript Archive, Typescript Transcripts.
10:13:29
10:13:29 From Jeff Miller plumbing day! slabs my dad has a house over a concrete slab in Palo Alto I like hearing the reflections
10:14:30 From Jeff Miller on what decisions shaped future options in a keep-it-open way and what decisions tended to be more burdensome - maintaining the important nature and the interoperability
10:15:33 From Jeff Miller "a title", "a slug", "a page as an ordered collection of items" design of support for re-do edit, move, fork; create history of asynchronously edited objects
10:16:47 From Jeff Miller "We trust the story before we trust the journal" - Ward "The journal allows you to reconstruct pages at points in history; was it a bit ambitious?"
10:18:14 From Jeff Miller Paul comments: there are two APIs, really; the browsing API is pretty good. The underlying editing and persistence API, folks expect more of it than it can consistently support, especially if there are changes. (Ward and Paul) - the editing and updating server API could have been more separate from the browsing API.
10:19:53 From Jeff Miller Ward comments that the client and the server are implicitly assuming consistent continuity. (But having the single owner per wiki at least HELPS) -Jeff "what's the 80% solution? the 87.5% solution?" - Ward, on the distributed state of federated wiki
10:21:26 From Jeff Miller Nick comments: with a slightly different structure, one could have the journal operate in a peer-to-peer environment. (general discussion about how the journal relates to how the state of a page changes)
10:22:55 From Jeff Miller (what is a page, separate from any individual view or any individual site? the forking history and the item IDs hint at a page being a collection of distributed parts) Ward reflects on having a synopsis stored in the site map, and making that searchable; the synopsis being the content of the first paragraph of a page.
10:24:53 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that there was productive interaction between Joshua and Paul on the search results, having the synopsis pop up; then later supporting fuller-text indexing; then understanding what the neighborhood looked like for search visibility.
10:26:22 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that his federation crawl and scrape has served us well for six or seven years. We see people do things that we didn't expect or suspect within fedwiki. Fedwiki is distributed -- does that make it opaque? Things outside your neighborhood, like in physical space. Brian thinks about fedwiki - let's say we wanted to use it to gather and present a collective statement? How does that work, for collective sense-making and statements?
10:28:44 From Jeff Miller Ward points to Thompson Morrison, of transforming agile software development such that it can be used as an approach in the educational sphere. What can we do to bring Thompson's approach back in? Ward reflects on his experience doing a co-reading, co-writing exercise with Thompson. There was comparatively little forking, but more writing that played off each other's work, and pointed to each other's pages. "Do you have any idea how many pages we made? Maybe 28, two pages a day?" "We did ninety-six pages!"
10:29:49 From Jeff Miller (Ward and Thompson) - the inspirations and pages playing off each other generated new pages as part of the discussion. Brian reflects: I see how it can work for two people in conversation. What does it look like for multiple people? I imagine some sort of organizational structure is needed, beyond wikis and pages.
10:31:15 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects: you can choose a specific site for a topical interaction. Maybe three people could have designated wikis for interaction, and that you could read two other wikis' recent changes before writing in your own.
10:32:48 From Jeff Miller Thompson was as affected by his experience as Ward was, and it motivated Thompson to take the experience into the educational sphere. Thompson did a collective writing exercise with two other authors, each working in their own wiki, with a fourth point of view, mostly worked by Thompson, to define the book; they also had a weekly coordination call to talk about the book work outside the wiki work.
10:34:09 From Jeff Miller The book-writing pattern included: * three authors writing individual wikis * the three authors having narratives * a garden of common ideas * Thompson as editor and visionary, who established credibility with other authors and was the helper, "what's a wiki reference vs. a link" A successful project. Brian reflects: successful teams overcome challenges or shortcomings in the tools. (g o o g l e d o c s) ?
10:35:17 From Jeff Miller so are we doomed to reinvent Google Wave? ( Jeff) Brian says: email doesn't tend to scale well beyond 5 people.
10:36:23 From Jeff Miller What would a pattern look like where twenty or thirty people would be able to keep up daily?
10:36:24 From Brian Doesn't scale when the 'n' are fully connected. Works fine for the 1 to many.
10:38:00 From Jeff Miller Ward relates a story at work related to a time series database dispute at work; after two and a half days of mediation, an exec chose a particular person to make the decision on the dispute. "The editor has to be the person most knowledgeable about the particular area."
10:38:28 From Brian I met Martin one time, and his memorable quote for me was, "Change the company you work for, or _change_ the company you work for."
10:38:37 From Jeff Miller The business model depended on not damaging the customer use cases for the time series database.
10:39:42 From Brian Obsidian.md model is that the core program is able to run plugins and all the functionality is implemented with a plugin.
10:40:58 From Ward Cunningham http://found.ward.fed.wiki/view/looking-at-folding-bikes
10:42:33 From Brian https://www.mybikeshop.com.sg/my-bike-shop-2/ownership-guides/buyers-guide-for-folding-bikes/
10:44:18 From Robert Sterbal so can I put the carrier on the window of my hatchback?
10:47:18
10:47:18 From Jeff Miller hmm I tried to drag a paragraph and I got a (/) "can't do it" - maybe it's the same item id but edited? maybe a shift drag nope still doesn't work hmm
10:48:22 From Jeff Miller I'll try dragging the journal whoa, that WORKED.
10:49:37 From Jeff Miller I couldn't drag or shift-drag an item but I could merge the journal.
10:56:01
10:56:01 From Jeff Miller (Ward and Paul relate the case in which dragging an item could be destructive or complicating)
10:57:45 From Brian `git reflog` was used frequently as I was learning git...I always read it as re-flog rather than ref-log though...
10:57:49 From Jeff Miller Nick discusses "git reflog" as somewhat deep magic
10:58:12 From Brian gitk was also key for learning git.
10:58:14 From Jeff Miller I think I've only used "git reflog" once, maybe. and there's the "rebase" folks and the "never rebase" folks I'm closer to "never rebase"
10:58:57 From Brian reposurgen... lol, I'm closer to never merge. lol.
10:59:48 From Jeff Miller Linus Torvalds' advocacy talk at Google hit my oversell detector, so I was happy to stick with Perforce for a while. oh yeah, git merge. :) :/
11:00:09 From Brian Ugh...my experience with perforce was not a happy one. If I weren't using git, I'd seriously consider fossil to see if it would fit my team and needs.
11:03:03
11:03:03 From Jeff Miller p4 was so core to Google that they rehosted the back end on their datacenter storage while supporting the Perforce wire protocol
11:04:35 From Brian For my personal projects, I'm almost to a TCR (test commit revert) mode, so I have numerous commits with bad commit messages on a branch, and then clean it up and turn it into a patch for mainline... Google did the similar with Subversion too
11:05:16 From Jeff Miller when two pages are not the same in item content but my local page has all the updates and I haven't edited it since merging Ward's journal over mine: "same" (wide blinking eyes) same epoch I guess?
11:05:54 From Brian P4 had some good features, but was way too close to RCS. The distributed version control paradigms were incredible advancements.
11:06:17 From Jeff Miller but were rarely used, beyond forking and merging? (I could understand Linus' motivation for making lots of traceable history of the kernel, after losing their sponsored host)
11:07:30 From Brian Yeah, also the cost of disks was changing rapidly, so the landscape was changing.
11:07:45 From Jeff Miller right, you could have a lot a lot of local history "everyone is the source repo!"
11:08:32 From Brian Bummer....I had many migraine's as a child too...
11:08:36 From Jeff Miller Andy Serkis
11:08:43 From Brian In my 30's , the got a lot less frequent. blackout curtains....
11:09:43 From Robert Sterbal My wife still gets them occasionally
11:10:21 From Brian Have to hash the journal...
11:16:31
11:16:31 From Ward Cunningham https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Afedwiki%2Fwiki-client+path%3A%2F%5Elib%5C%2F%2F+merge&type=code
11:19:37
11:19:37 From Jeff Miller Beyond Compare Difftastic
11:20:08 From Paul Rodwell http://goals.pod.rodwell.me/difftastic.html
11:20:22 From Jeff Miller (Ward refers to collaborative work where side-by-side comparison is a workaday, useful view; a "side-by-side collaboration machine" as FedWiki)
11:21:52 From Jeff Miller "What is the recipe that Thompson, Ward, and Thompson's co-authors used to create the book?" (because the tools evolved over the course of the book; Thompson used the Supercollaborator to compare and reflect on the side-by-side work of the multiple authors in graph form)
11:23:38 From Brian translating between the micro and macro scales is always where interesting things happen.
11:24:07 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that Thompson's experiences in writing the book, in using zoom and investigating the networked view, were important in changing his approach during the book production. Thompson's editorial point of view based on his experience writing an earlier book let the core ideas emerge from his study of a complex overlapping diagram.
11:26:01 From Jeff Miller Thompson's diagrams of the narrative pages and the gateways and the garden (collective) pages were his points of focus; the gateways were important in determining the structure.
11:26:47 From Robert Sterbal Looking at the map feature of the photos app I think you are shortchanging phones
11:26:55 From Jeff Miller size: about 90 non-shared story pages; about 45 gateway pages; and then the "garden" of common ideas. The Supercollaborator view allowed Thompson to see how things entered the gateway and the garden; what things were one step away from the gateway. Part of finishing the book was in choosing which version of a gateway page went into the printed book.
11:28:24 From Jeff Miller Brian relates a story of getting lost in the side detail when going through the book, sometimes losing the thread of the meaningful idea.
11:29:26 From Jeff Miller The book as published, preserved the narrative of each other and referred to the "garden" of encyclopedic detail shared as reference points in the narrative.
11:30:43 From Jeff Miller (Was the "garden" less meaningful to folks outside the educational profession / decision-makers in education?) Ward relates that he and Paul worked together in building tools to support Thompson's book project. "Scrivener", an IDE for a book.
11:31:49 From Jeff Miller What does Scrivener's process look like?
11:32:02 From Paul Rodwell https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview
11:32:33 From Jeff Miller How does the fedwiki authoring and editing process work better for the subject and the authors for that particular book?
11:33:29 From Robert Sterbal Phone map app
11:35:51 From Brian I know a number of people who have replaced their laptop with their phone.
11:35:54 From Jeff Miller Ward relates an example of a friend recording an agile class into a phone with a whiteboard handy; the phone recording was transcribed; the results of the transcription became multiple books.
11:36:04 From Brian with a docking station sort of setup.
11:43:00
11:43:00 From Jeff Miller (Ward shares a picture of the Tilt 5 augmented reality / VR setup) An example layout of a set of little colored boxes stacked above a table. How many could you visualize and make useful?
11:44:18 From Jeff Miller Ward reflects that you can get many little boxes usefully present on the shared view.
11:45:19 From Ward Cunningham http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/spatial-density-of-diagrams
11:45:19 From Brian https://www.tiltfive.com/
11:45:27 From Jeff Miller His sample picture relates the set of servers used for a system; you might take a picture and reach into the columnar representation of a particular server's activity and health. The Tilt Five look -- through the glasses -- the bit density is not as high on a Tilt Five than a typical laptop screen.
11:46:52 From Jeff Miller (Jeff recalls a dataglove for 3D manu manipulation) (the plumber is here)
11:47:07 From Robert Sterbal sunny blocks
11:54:58
11:54:58 From Robert Sterbal food tiled
11:55:41 From Jeff Miller (save chat!) 9.1 MB of ??
11:56:44 From Jeff Miller 20 TB hard drive (Robert S.)
12:05:47
12:05:47 From Robert Sterbal I found a cool bookmarklet javascript:loc=location.href; title=document.title; x=document.getElementsByTagName("A"); y=window.open(); y.document.write("<html><body><h3>Links: "+loc+"</h3>\n"); for(n=0;n<x.length;n++){ if(x[n].href!=""){ if(x[n].text.replace(/\s+/,"").length<1){ for(j=0;j<x[n].childNodes.length;j++) { if(x[n].childNodes[j].nodeName=="IMG"){ y.document.write(""); break; } } }else{ y.document.write(" "+x[n].href+"<br>"); } } } y.document.write("</body></html>"); y.document.close();void(0); lists all the link on a page