Text extraction. See Typescript Archive
09:07:59
09:07:59 From Jeff Miller radio excitement! Amateur Radio Field Day
09:09:24 From Jeff Miller It's now air conditioning season and I'm wondering about capturing a temperature curve in the bedroom
09:10:31 From Marc Pierson Any one playing with Warp? Only works on Macs
09:10:53 From Paul Rodwell warp terminal?
09:11:01 From Jeff Miller OS/2 Warp? probably not oh kinda cute a Rust-based terminal
09:12:06 From Jeff Miller (I was just trying Alacritty, and I got it to "okay it works" level) bash-completion was part of my earlier pairing embedded in BusyBox haha
09:13:38 From Paul Rodwell https://www.warp.dev/
09:13:49 From Jeff Miller 'sh' why "a shell"?
09:14:35 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28computing%29
09:15:35 From Jeff Miller 'sh' co-evolved with Unix Bourne - an update to 'sh' also called 'sh' for v7 Unix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_R._Bourne
09:16:25 From Peter Dimitrios Bourne Again Shell bash
09:16:36 From Paul Rodwell Multics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pouzin - in the 60s
09:17:02 From Jeff Miller "Bourne Again Shell" with extra goodies over "sh" and then there was the C Shell with its own branch history and wordplay 'sh' in interactive mode as a Read Eval Print Looop
09:17:42 From Paul Rodwell UNIX - 70s - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson
09:18:04 From Jeff Miller input-process-output (typically batch mode) deck of cards in, output deck or printout out interactive programming based on read-eval-print;
09:19:05 From Jeff Miller Lisp S-expressions as an early interactive programming environment decks can be replayed decks can be combined rubber bands and felt tip pens
09:19:57 From Paul Rodwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keypunch
09:20:18 From Jeff Miller the big brass drum with characters lpr == line printer
09:21:01 From Peter Dimitrios Line printer music
09:22:22 From Jeff Miller carburetors butterfly valves choke
09:23:45 From Jeff Miller sunos workstations with packets to /dev/audio
09:25:38 From Jeff Miller Peter D recalls LabView, with distance-based audio in a large zooming interface for simulating manufacturing processes :)
09:27:14 From Jeff Miller visual business process automation projected on the floor or ceiling! (from Ward)
09:28:30 From Jeff Miller I'm a little familiar with Children's Hospital - also a lifesaver
09:31:24
09:31:24 From Jeff Miller my Digital Ocean instance uptime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_R._Bourne oops uptime 16:06:09 up 62 days, 8:26, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 time for a wiki restart
09:33:24 From Jeff Miller "case manager" similar to "medical coach" role? except aimed at enabling the patient's intentions and needs?
09:37:07
09:37:07 From Jeff Miller top-down vs. bottom-up dynamics; large organizations become more top-down over time (from Marc's observations and studies)
09:38:45 From Jeff Miller (I'm partway through Brian Marick's episodes on Ostrom's Governing the Commons)
09:38:51 From Paul Rodwell there are example of police teaming up with mental health and have teams with 1 police office + 1 psychiatric nurse for a response.
09:39:06 From Jeff Miller nod - police + mental health responders
09:39:51 From Ward Cunningham https://ferd.ca/notes/paper-ecological-interfaces-a-technological-imperative-in-high-tech-systems.html
09:41:21 From Jeff Miller rate of return versus total return
09:42:38 From Ward Cunningham http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/infected-with-roi.html
09:43:43 From Jeff Miller portfolio-based speculation where allocators are cushioned from consequences of any particular error or failure or external damage (ROI infection)?
09:45:28 From Jeff Miller the statement about "you can't evolve your way to an intuition of the system" from the review on Ecological Interfaces In high-technology environments, however, most of the work ends up requiring conscious decision-making and planning. You can do trial and error, but because you have to continuously aim for acceptable work performance trade-offs and constantly looking for new opportunities to improve, you never reach that equilibrium. Continued adaptation is required from the workers. This is made worse in large-scale systems, which just grow the scope to people, property, and the environment, with various safety trade-offs. Because the systems are more complex, with worse possible consequences, faults can't properly be anticipated, and trial-and-error and surface features are no longer an acceptable way to develop skills, since they risk major accidents. (apologies for the dump; it's an assertion about high-speed complexity changing faster than people can understand how the advanced technology system works)
09:46:31 From Jeff Miller [needs a Cornell Notes summary]
09:49:25
09:49:25 From Marc Pierson http://marc.tries.fed.wiki/view/ddd-pattern-language-overview
09:50:16 From Jeff Miller The review concludes with a note about Ecological Interface Design being a narrow success. (anesthesiology, industrial process control)
09:53:13
09:53:13 From Jeff Miller the system components are human-visible and fixable versus the system being not fixable on this side of an ocean
09:57:28
09:57:28 From Ward Cunningham https://ferd.ca/notes/paper-ecological-interfaces-a-technological-imperative-in-high-tech-systems.html
09:58:11 From Paul Rodwell https://ferd.ca/notes/paper-ecological-interfaces-a-technological-imperative-in-high-tech-systems.html an echo
09:59:44 From Jeff Miller What software supports bottom-up recombination and repurposing? What practices can maintain the ability to recombine and repurpose community-level software?
10:01:43 From Jeff Miller I thought that Breath of the Wild had the "fall off the cliff!" problem; maybe that's until you get the glider. Tears of the Kingdom (latest Legend of Zelda) - a crafting mechanic influence of Minecraft
10:04:11 From Jeff Miller Tears of the Kingdom - integration of a wide range of base weapons in the game, with many objects which can be recombined. "pinned or not-pinned library" "we turned off the flaky integration test"
10:05:16 From Paul Rodwell A little random walk from ecological interfaces, via Don Norman and Jakob Nielsen lead to "The Ecological Approach to Visual Perception”. Which reminds me of Bill Hill and his comments about Homo Sapiens 1.0, and that 2.0 is not coming along anytime soon.
10:05:28 From Jeff Miller huge surface area for whole-system integration testing
10:07:23 From Paul Rodwell UI -> integration between computer and a human.
10:08:00 From Jeff Miller integration test -> many failure causes -> flaky signal -> test muted -> never see the flaky test go into continuous failure
10:09:14 From Jeff Miller Aspect-Oriented Programming for The Legend of Zelda :)
10:09:19 From Paul Rodwell play testing and probably some sort of coverage testing during that process.
10:09:55 From Jeff Miller (the failure modes can be pretty perplexing) "an object out of view is falling until its location coordinates go into integer overflow, and then none of the physics interactions work anymore"
10:12:08 From Jeff Miller (These days, it's common to have a REPORT BUG control which captures a screenshot and a state snapshot)
10:15:18
10:15:18 From Paul Rodwell family - definition is personal
10:19:02
10:19:02 From Jeff Miller "Should this be part of the basic navigation affordance on every page?" (like a Lineup Diagram) new Plugin / new Item; needed to be put on a page for it to be present (Thompson's usage of page templates on which an item would always be present for navigation)
10:20:03 From Jeff Miller Marc: "Why can't the reader have this affordance?" (from his experience navigating Wiki) in classic FedWiki, you would have to fork each page and add your own navigation widget
10:21:04 From Paul Rodwell Eric describes an ‘active reader’ idea, saves personal annotations in a location that is reader based. and the complexity in explaining it.
10:21:07 From Jeff Miller "a reading client plugin?" - Jeff, to Eric "can you depict this page as a graph?" - Marc's thought inspired by ChatGPT
10:22:31 From Jeff Miller Peter D points out: "how do you render a dynamic site in a way that a scraper can understand?" Peter D: perhaps a rendering as semantic HTML or a similar semantic view?
10:24:06 From Jeff Miller Ward describes a set of pages collecting different photographic view perspectives, and considers having a site survey which sorts the images by perspective based on image analysis.
10:25:32 From Paul Rodwell thinking of AI, a horrid long URL that might not work - http://forage.rodwell.me/risks.rodwell.me/what-could-go-wrong---the-people-paid-to-train-ai-are-outsourcing-their-work--to-ai/risks.rodwell.me/chatgpt-can-now-generate-working-windows-11-keys-for-free/risks.rodwell.me/92-of-programmers-use-ai-tools-survey/risks.rodwell.me/openai-sued-for-libel-over-chatgpts-hallucinations
10:26:14 From Jeff Miller worked for me!
10:28:32 From Jeff Miller when Mechanical Turk workers outsource their work to text generators
10:30:08 From Jeff Miller "We don't have experience writing hypermedia as a widespread cultural practice. We're, most of us, used to a five-paragraph essay as the typical form." ~ Eric news article shape inverted pyramid shape chronology shape
10:30:51 From Paul Rodwell https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360131598000293
10:31:01 From Jeff Miller https://maggieappleton.com/garden ?
10:31:11 From Paul Rodwell yes
10:31:50 From Jeff Miller "This is not a multiplayer game yet." (oops, Maggie?)
10:32:53 From Jeff Miller oh, "tools for thought" as individual practices versus hypermedia as a multiplayer endeavor
10:35:22 From Jeff Miller (blinks in Portland Pattern Repository)
10:35:23 From Ward Cunningham https://hapgood.us/2014/11/06/federated-education-new-directions-in-digital-collaboration/
10:35:48 From Paul Rodwell Federated Wiki: Information Lifecycle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gi9SRsRrE4
10:36:53 From Jeff Miller https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history THIS is the one with "We haven't figure[d] out how to make them multi-player. But there's an enthusiastic community of developers and designers trying to fix that." that's where she's a breath away
10:38:26 From Jeff Miller "We'll all watch a video or read an article; would you tell us what you think are the high points for future work?" - a guest for Wednesday Wiki? "How I link things allows me to *invent* a schema; it's a thing that a graph does that a spreadsheet or a table doesn't."
10:39:56 From Jeff Miller Fluency in navigating nodes and links, manually and via tools; those are things which are special magic in Federated Wiki's composition of elements. survey with a propositional or tag-based query on an image?
10:41:19 From Jeff Miller Emergent patterns via practice work from link-based structures more than from table-based structures.
10:41:39 From Marc Pierson I am interested in Ward’s comment about adding tools for the reader.
10:42:18 From Jeff Miller Tools for the reader sound like a design pattern similar to "design for special needs" design for special needs gives us tools useful for many of us - wheeled compact luggage, Oxo Good Grips kitchen tools
10:44:17 From Jeff Miller "somewhere between programming - complex; and configuration - tedious and overconstrained" (end-user programmable wikis ?) (literate programming for SVG transformations) (Survey workflows across pages, an example of tiny programs from a savvy wiki user) "open for extension, closed for modification"
10:45:56 From Paul Rodwell flow based programming?
10:46:37 From Jeff Miller (comparison with affordances with end-user specialties in spreadsheets, such as pivot tables -- you have to know a good deal about spreadsheets) "the lineup is a stack" as a clarifying notion for Eric in interpreting federated wiki structure
10:47:48 From Jeff Miller "lexical closure over variables" compared with "stack frames" "the four pages to your left is the context that your current frame knows about" Look up and to the left (the past) and create to the right.
10:48:29 From Paul Rodwell https://jpaulm.github.io/fbp/
10:48:47 From Jeff Miller the ghost pages of the future to be realized or abandoned? the metaphor of the pipe in Unix; in some sense, each column boundary is a pipe oh hang on pin a page to the right to digest the pages to the left?
10:49:56 From Jeff Miller (a shortcut to client / reader affordances?) I've used the Lineup DIagram as the easiest way to explain FedWiki to novices.
10:51:16 From Jeff Miller [Marc is considering using the wiki column format to drive the Personal Health Record, combining perhaps a set of conditions and then seeing resources to the right] "What if we built a tool that took an SVG and digested it into a set of words? Then you can connect the words in an appropriate way and the tool can create a formula for conversion." (Ward's thought for a more general SVG ingestion tool?)
10:52:24 From Eric Dobbs https://bost.ocks.org/mike/algorithms/
10:54:30 From Jeff Miller that's a very pretty Quicksort description!
10:56:25 From Jeff Miller Mergesort with a distinct visual representation. oh interesting!
10:57:28 From Jeff Miller the SVG importer as an SVG editor-importer "perserve the structure of the drawing while allowing a human importer some control over details; get a user into the loop at the right place"
10:59:19 From Jeff Miller Consider a lineup as a set of stages in a pipe, where a human could mediate each of the transition stages?
10:59:25 From Paul Rodwell also gives a capability to use the structure from a diagram, but where the text is in vector graphics rather than text.
10:59:50 From Marc Pierson Make it so that I can import any SVG—then do whatever I might want to it IN THE FEDWIKI. Thesis a SVG editor that allows the user to get going from outside the FedWiki.
11:00:21 From Jeff Miller (Ward describes a way of example-based understanding of certain connections, where the user can provide a few examples, and the importer / editor tool can propose an interpreted and converted page which might serve as a model for the NEXT import) "save the interpretation mapping" "save the lineup"
11:01:43 From Jeff Miller :lightbulb: hmm lineup-based computation as a primary mode of interaction for wiki reader level programming
11:03:05 From Jeff Miller style extraction and replacement? "can you generate a drawing from this description?" draft comes up in an editor, you can tweak the drawing and the tweaks might be information for the next step (the next page conversion)
11:09:07
11:09:07 From Eric Dobbs 19x19 grid is conventional. I think smaller boards are used for instructional purposes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_equipment
11:10:06 From Marc Pierson For me dimensionality is for differentiating perspectives not number of variables.
11:11:49 From Jeff Miller (continuing to scan Bostock's paper) https://bost.ocks.org/mike/algorithms/#vision I thought the animation of the multiple variables in the "Is it Better to Buy or Rent" section was pretty compelling to Bostock's visual thinking point.
11:13:13 From Jeff Miller "dimensionality" in Marc's terms, by pulling out and presenting the data most relevant to different perspectives -- mothers? five-year-olds? traffic planners? (Marc probably did not say "traffic planners", but some other perspective) "Visual momentum" - what can I do so that I do not lose the context of the previous page or visualization?
11:14:14 From Jeff Miller perhaps there's not even a backward path? The FedWiki lineup can help preserve visual momentum, though Woods' paper may have more to say about other parts of context about visual momentum. "master-detail visual pattern" ?
11:15:15 From Jeff Miller Wikipedia and "hover" cards to preview a link. [I think a lot about preview cards since Microsoft, where "active cards" are a technique for embedding static or dynamic content]
11:17:27 From Jeff Miller Ward and Wardley ? Wardley: "how visible is the effort" on y axis; "what you're building; how close is it to being a commodity" on the x acis well some things get plucked over to the left on a Wardley map
11:18:40 From Jeff Miller but given nodes tend to drift rightward in a typical evolving commodity space left boundary of a map: "enters the realm of commerce and commodities" right boundary of a map: "becomes a standard expectation"
11:20:35 From Jeff Miller takeaways from today's discussion? Ward: revisit older visions of wiki, in the context of explaining the lineup more directly as a past to future flow ?
11:21:44 From Marc Pierson Let’s agree that we can show 3 ds but keep open what the dimensions are, not just space and or time.
11:21:55 From Jeff Miller "theory of graceful extensibility" "no omniscient point of view, THEREFORE ..." "...you have to compare and contrast perspectives"
11:22:43 From Paul Rodwell I think THEREFORE …
11:22:46 From Jeff Miller There is an inherent coordination problem scross perspectives. hm for me it's CONWAY'S LAW RULES ALL AROUND ME (I just started reading Team Topologies) "five perspectives is sufficent to reveal interesting relationships"
11:23:50 From Jeff Miller fewer than five and it's not generative more than five and it's confusing ? N-SYN "thirty people, twelve perspectives, subgroups of five" ?
11:24:29 From Eric Dobbs I think the math of Marc’s Rule of 5 is represented in the number of subgraphs in a completely connected graph of five nodes: https://oeis.org/A001349/list
11:25:39 From Jeff Miller [ syntegration Stafford Beer ]
11:26:47 From Jeff Miller "A syntegration is a non-hierarchical, participatory form of conference, inspired by Stafford’s realisation that all the good ideas at a conference come from the corridors and the bars. It is based on the mathematical qualities of an icosahedron (which we all began by making, with cocktail sticks and jelly babies), and takes three-and-a-half days, and thirty people. "
11:26:54 From Marc Pierson https://metapho.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/n-syn-model/view/neighborhood-syntegration/view/n-syn
11:28:08 From Jeff Miller (Rob Passmore writing on OpenDemocracy related to Syntegration https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/611/ )
11:30:38 From Jeff Miller "two countries divided by a common language" oot and aboot?
11:31:51 From Jeff Miller (it's where you go in a car)
11:34:40
11:34:40 From Jeff Miller "nice" a pleasant situation a fine distinction a fine and useful distinction
11:34:48 From Eric Dobbs https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_contranyms
11:35:15 From Jeff Miller terror and awe
11:36:19 From Jeff Miller "error"
11:37:31 From Paul Rodwell https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=error
11:37:37 From Peter Dimitrios Bard made up something: The word "error" has an interesting etymology. It comes from the Latin word "errare", which means "to wander". This is because an error is often seen as a kind of "wandering" from the truth. In fact, in many languages, the words for "error" and "wander" are related. For example, the Greek word for "error" is "plane", which also means "to wander". Another strange thing about the etymology of "error" is that it originally had a broader meaning than it does today. In the Middle Ages, "error" could refer to any kind of mistake, including moral or spiritual mistakes. For example, the Catholic Church used to use the word "error" to refer to heresy. Today, the word "error" is more narrowly defined as a mistake in thinking or judgment. However, the original meaning of the word stilllingers in the phrase "trial and error", which refers to a method of problem-solving that involves making mistakes in order to find the correct solution. So, the next time you make an error, don't beat yourself u
11:38:07 From Jeff Miller error from "wandering" in Latin knight errant
11:39:04 From Peter Dimitrios didn't trust Bard at first until I googled to check on it :-)
11:39:08 From Jeff Miller peregrine - also "wandering" hahahahaha "To Google or to Bard? Both are Alphabet."
11:39:43 From Peter Dimitrios query was what is strange about the etymology of the word "error"
11:40:12 From Jeff Miller oh interesting! "wiggle the page" as a fix for the SVG rendering? "Institutions" in the center of the three columns after wiggling "EIP Sketch"?
11:41:13 From Marc Pierson https://metapho.relocalizecreativity.net/view/eip-sketch
11:41:16 From Jeff Miller but when rendering, it's stacked under the green column [I can reproduce the error]
11:42:20 From Jeff Miller FIrefox; wiggle and it fixes it for me wow
11:43:23 From Jeff Miller "Warning: no hard-coded metrics for 'Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif'. Falling back to 'Times' metrics"
11:44:27 From Jeff Miller Instututions under LEFT column for me Jeff's screen
11:50:59
11:50:59 From Jeff Miller the SVG text element when centered correctly: <text text-anchor="middle" x="376" y="-28.2" font-family="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" font-size="30.00"> Institutions </text>
11:53:56
11:53:56 From Jeff Miller versus the error state <text text-anchor="middle" x="376" y="-28.2" font-family="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" font-size="30.00"> Institutions </text>
11:54:53 From Peter Dimitrios puzzle-solving
11:55:45 From Jeff Miller label = " Institutions ";
11:56:57 From Jeff Miller I think I made it worse by taking the blanks out
11:57:21 From Peter Dimitrios ubgraph cluster_2 { label = " Institutions "; node [style=filled]; color=white; fontsize=30;
11:58:16 From Jeff Miller white on white object above? the spaces do seem to help