Typescript 2023-03-12

09:19:18

09:19:18 From Jeff Miller a game person to play with you? like the dance couple on a cruise?

09:20:26 From Jeff Miller ah, Avalon Hill, my teenage game group had a bunch of AH boxes on the shelves ecosystem creation time, help your developers

09:21:32 From Jeff Miller Star Wars Chess :) "Let the Wookiee Win"

09:23:10 From Jeff Miller chasing transparent seagrass around a coffee house as part of the calibration sequence HDTV resolution oh right, 720 is ~~

09:24:32 From Jeff Miller virtual monitor - good for computing in the airport lounge? flatscreens easier for pairing than VR/AR monitors

09:25:50 From Jeff Miller oh right storage tube displays, nod nod Asteroids - it was originally vector IIRC, limited to simplified monochrome

09:27:35 From Jeff Miller we need to highlight the interlinks with red strings between the pages? 🙂 🙂

09:27:52 From nancy "conspiracy chart"

09:28:03 From Jeff Miller yes, virtual conspiracy chart environment Minority Report (the movie) vs. Minority Report (the story, which was a peculiar logic puzzle of the Knights and Knaves form)

09:30:58

09:30:58 From Jeff Miller my high school had a Commodore PET in the senior English (+ SF and philosophy) teacher's room "they had a 42 billion dollar withdrawal and they could have weathered 40 billion dollars" the classic Bank Run

09:32:02 From Jeff Miller someone twitches, there's a fundamental tick from the federal bond interest rates whispering "fire!" in a crowded theatre

09:36:42

09:36:42 From Jeff Miller szechuan scallion pancakes

09:37:19 From Frank Gerhardt My intro, my old page at c2.com https://web.archive.org/web/20130217080023/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FrankGerhardt

09:38:33 From Jeff Miller my wiki intro: http://wiki.c2.com/?JeffreyMiller let me see if I'm still up http://wiki.pixiereport.com/

09:39:39 From Jeff Miller my instance has not crashed!

09:39:47 From Frank Gerhardt Does anybody know any admins of these farms? [commoning.muster.federated.wiki] Mustersprache des Commoning » http://commoning.muster.federated.wiki/view/welcome-visitors [muster.des.commoning.wiki] Muster des Commoning CI AG » http://muster.des.commoning.wiki/view/welcome-visitors [makecommoningwork.fed.wiki] make commoning work » http://makecommoningwork.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors [ward.asia.wiki.org] Ward Cunningham » http://ward.asia.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors [trg.federated.wiki] Johann Steudtle » http://trg.federated.wiki/view/welcome-visitors [reliable.prosperity.fed.wiki.org] Reliable Prosperity » http://reliable.prosperity.fed.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors [davidbollier.fed.wiki] David Bollier » http://davidbollier.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors

09:40:31 From Robert Best Probably Jon Richter

09:41:26 From Jeff Miller Google for OAuth https because Google is extra concerned about https vs. http related to person-in-the-middle worries (I guess?)

09:44:10

09:44:10 From Jeff Miller delegation is hard therefore we donate to the Internet Archive (perhaps?) https://web.archive.org/web/20130217080023/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FrankGerhardt

09:45:39 From Jeff Miller oh right non-decodable sequences though I noticed GitHub's markdown processor tries hard

09:47:11 From Jeff Miller "you can't open your POP mailbox?" ... "try it NOW." customer support is too much leaned on fast

09:48:31 From Jeff Miller extract $ toward the company owners / partners

09:49:44 From Jeff Miller writing "R" code! some physics Ph.D. grads went into finance in the 80s 80s and 90s. Eric!

09:51:38 From Marc Pierson https://web.archive.org/web/20130527132748/http://www.gerhardtinformatics.com/

09:51:46 From Jeff Miller "Where are the actuaries with fire and sword?" (my Twitter byline)

09:55:06

09:55:06 From Jeff Miller the curse of financialization creating a class of financialization experts

09:56:37 From Jeff Miller Kerry Turner - causal loop expert; horse trainer ("Riding Dynamics" -- system dynamics in horse and rider work)

09:57:48 From Jeff Miller [toward Eric: my grandmother was born in Boulder; I visited there for a planetary astronomy conference] LFI Conference local to Eric recently.

10:00:02 From nancy hmmm haven't looked at my c2.com wiki page in awhile - https://web.archive.org/web/20191208175121/http://wiki.c2.com/?PeterDimitrios

10:00:41 From Jeff Miller metamaps dot cc? https://metamaps.cc/ (to Robert B.)

10:00:58 From Eric Dobbs Marc, I got some pages up that covers similar ground to what I presented at LFI Conf. https://lfi.wiki.dbbs.co/-aikido-for-a-hijacked-retro.html

10:01:55 From Jeff Miller me = Visual Age for Java (Smalltalk engine) first introduction to an IDE

10:04:11 From nancy VisualAge for Smalltalk became VisualAge for XXxxxx brand then eventually a legacy brand then part of history

10:04:38 From Jeff Miller having a ground crew helps a lot when a child is due

10:05:15 From nancy Buying OTI and Envy library / package system was really interesting part of the VisualAge Smalltalk ecosystem

10:05:22 From Jeff Miller I remember ruby-fedwiki; probably node-fedwiki inclined me toward node I remember at Retail Aspect when we occasionally had Envy corruption. Envy was super good for the parsed out history of the code structure ... until it wasn't.

10:06:34 From Jeff Miller I was amused to see that Erich Gamma is still building IDEs, now VSCode.

10:06:58 From nancy yeah, vscode is the most interesting one IMHO also because of the backing

10:07:58 From Jeff Miller https://web.archive.org/web/20130217080023/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FrankGerhardt college ride boards once upon a time - Craigslist now, I guess?

10:09:16 From nancy Uber / Lyft are 'rideshare as a business'

10:09:29 From Jeff Miller a pattern language for governing the commons as a community

10:09:31 From nancy But Google through Maps has All The Data and P2P stuff via Waze

10:10:05 From Jeff Miller "semantic markup in Federated Wiki, form input for capturing data" -- that's quite current!

10:12:17 From Jeff Miller notes to Frank's question about personal wikis, dividing between personal and public; Ward describes a couple of personal localhost wiki instances with the same database and alternate versions at software, running in "screen"

10:12:37 From nancy GNU Screen vs nohup vs sysv init or systemd

10:13:46 From Jeff Miller Ward describes dabbling in using Wiki as an application server; the division of work between client (lineup, page visibility) and server (page history and persistence, navigation) is interesting. Ward has done wiki-fied extracts of text (e.g. a wiki-text Pattern Language privately)

10:13:50 From Paul Rodwell like Ward, I have two localhost farms, using localhost subdomains - one with the released version, the other with thinks that are currently being worked on for the next version.

10:15:51 From Jeff Miller Ward describes Marc working with neighborhood communities around focused Federated Wiki collaborations; login-to-read is one option for a more closed collaboration. Working with schools, for example, based on a school email. Ward talks about the notion of a user-defined community but we haven't done specific work on it.

10:15:59 From Robert Best It would be interesting to use something like this to delegate capability tokens to people for things like reading or reading https://ucan.xyz/

10:16:17 From Jeff Miller "delegate capability tokens", nod

10:16:25 From Robert Best Writing*

10:17:30 From nancy Same thing here using Docker and Podman (OpenShift) ... no need for containers for fedwiki

10:17:42 From Jeff Miller Eric describes running wiki locally using Node. He has worked with bringing up Wiki on a local Kubernetes; but it wasn't sufficiently interesting for the complication K8S requires. It turns out that the K8S install depends on Docker, and Docker for Mac is energy-intensive. Eric uses Mac launch-agent now for his personal wiki.

10:18:15 From nancy node or deno process is Good Enough 'container' for fedwiki

10:18:20 From Jeff Miller Eric describes the wiki exposed to the internet as used with docker-compose and a https reverse proxy rather than exposing the Node server directly.

10:19:27 From Jeff Miller The combination of TLS certificate checking and domain names complicates server administration, as Eric describes; he experimented with TLS configuration in his K8S; it was helpful for learning but not enough to be worth sharing.

10:20:55 From Eric Dobbs https://github.com/fedwiki/wiki-ssg

10:21:31 From Jeff Miller [My new laptop is non-Mac partly to avoid running non-native Docker, but I'm early in setting it up.]

10:22:00 From Jeff Miller I appreciate your reminder of the static site generator.

10:22:06 From Eric Dobbs https://github.com/dobbs/wander.dbbs.co/

10:22:40 From Marc Pierson It seems like there are concerns. Eric may clarify. Robert’s friend created this in less than an hour.

10:23:07 From Jeff Miller https://github.com/dobbs/wander.dbbs.co/blob/main/404.html clever!

10:23:26 From Robert Best https://compose-spec.io/

10:23:41 From Jeff Miller concealing complexities core to consumerization ? ;)

10:26:12

10:26:12 From Paul Rodwell “of course there will be a server” except for a short period when there was a P2P version using the now discontinued Beaker browser.

10:26:31 From Jeff Miller Ward highlights the possibility of revising the URL scheme to better support static sites, in the way that Eric has used the 404 handler to support the lineup of wiki pages.

10:27:35 From Jeff Miller Robert: interesting. https://github.com/compose-spec/compose-spec/blob/master/spec.md

10:28:49 From Jeff Miller Marc describes needs for working with information personally and collaboratively. Marc has the one-click LocalWiki: LocalWiki, 0.0.4 (0.0.4), ©️ 2022 So And So Ltd.

10:29:59 From Jeff Miller Marc highlights the need for collaborative wiki work to be effective on mobile devices as a critical need / limit. CamelCase WikiWords (I still think in this way) [I very lightly hacked WikiBase for personal sites]

10:31:17 From nancy Re: Mobile Fedwiki ... need to figure out best way to map miller columns to phone pages. I started with some Flutter work, but it quickly becomes something different from Fedwiki.

10:31:45 From Frank Gerhardt fg@gerhardt.io

10:31:49 From Jeff Miller relocalizecreativity.net - Marc's wiki farm

10:31:53 From Frank Gerhardt frank

10:32:24 From Jeff Miller frank.relocalizecreativity.net

10:33:52 From Jeff Miller oh wow, that's a clever way of collaborating and comparing - his own supercollaborator ! afk coffee

10:39:54

10:39:54 From Frank Gerhardt @Eric, I tried Aikido last year. Because it's an influcence for contact improvisation - what I did yesterday and today

10:41:00 From Paul Rodwell maybe something like https://www.divami.com/blog/usage-svg-stroke-dasharray

10:52:33

10:52:33 From Frank Gerhardt @Marc thank you for showing this

10:54:52 From Marc Pierson https://frank.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/about-flagmatic-plugin

10:58:30

10:58:30 From Jeff Miller I was not expecting to hear about Contact Improv today, but here we are!

11:00:57 From Frank Gerhardt where can I read about the survey concept?

11:01:36 From Robert Best It went pretty fast. How do you tag something?

11:02:20 From Frank Gerhardt Reacted to "I was not expectin..." with 😀

11:02:26 From Jeff Miller Frank: try http://ward.dojo.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/code.fed.wiki/catalog-of-survey-probes/code.fed.wiki/site-survey-factory ?

11:02:34 From Eric Dobbs At the end of the paragraph item, Ward types a space, two greater-than characters, and another space. All the words to the right of that marker are treated as tags. So “ >> weather” is the convention for this machine he’s building.

11:02:54 From Jeff Miller catalog-of-survey-probes gives examples of ways to survey pages within a wiki

11:02:59 From Frank Gerhardt Reacted to "Frank: try http://..." with 👍

11:03:14 From Jeff Miller oh right the ">>" character used for the convention for phototelling Phototelling was an early and specific version of the survey process to gather information from photo geodata

11:04:15 From Robert Best Ah ok. I'm still curious about putting data in the JSON somewhere other than the item content itself... Seems to apply to elements in graph nodes/edges too... Ie. There is more data than what is shown on the label.

11:05:16 From Eric Dobbs https://wiki.dbbs.co/svg-clip-path--color-bars.html

11:06:19 From Jeff Miller Eric: thanks for finding that clip-path! I went a little dry on the graphviz pie chart re-rendering

11:10:21

11:10:21 From Jeff Miller phototelling as an example of scripting data from wiki pages to generate new information: http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/learning-phototelling/seattle.fed.wiki/visited-places-script

11:10:22 From Robert Best https://admin.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/plugin-admin

11:13:03

11:13:03 From Jeff Miller I've been thinking of phototelling in my own neighborhood for different themes; 1. Whimsical front yard decorations 2. In-fill of row houses 3. Little Free Libraries

11:13:44 From Frank Gerhardt do you keep the chat anywhere afterwards?

11:13:54 From Jeff Miller I personally save the chat but have rarely distributed it Zoom has a "..." menu which allows "Save Chat"

11:14:21 From Robert Best Should dump chat in the Dojo somewhere each week :P

11:14:40 From Frank Gerhardt I have a hard time copy&Pasting the chat because that webclient doesn't make it easy

11:15:12 From Jeff Miller The native client is good at saving the whole chat.

11:16:17 From Robert Best The web client might not have that option?

11:17:25 From Robert Best Download to upload in zooms own chat :P though maybe web client can't DL files?

11:18:58 From Marc Pierson Frank you site is up.

11:19:03 From Robert Best I'm on zoom mobile... Don't see an option to download chat here either. Reacted to "{32F9A977-4695-44A0-A4A1-0F6166887E73}.png" with 👍

11:23:17

11:23:17 From Robert Best draWiki

11:26:14

11:26:14 From Frank Gerhardt Silke Helfrichs library, with Alexanders books in blue what I'd like to catalogized

11:26:33 From Jeff Miller http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/sunday-explorers for Frank semantic markup in JSON objects or ad-hoc ? (answer: ad-hoc conventions ?)

11:27:58 From Robert Best https://5stardata.info/en/

11:28:18 From Frank Gerhardt Reacted to "http://jeff.dojo.f..." with ❤️

11:28:44 From Paul Rodwell or JSON-LD

11:29:37 From Jeff Miller https://json-ld.org/

11:30:29 From Robert Best Fed wiki is so close to JSON-LD already... And our controlled vocab for the base format would be really simple. Title, story, journal.

11:30:36 From Jeff Miller https://commonsstrategies.org/who-we-are/ - Silke Helfrich and David Bollier

11:31:00 From Eric Dobbs https://semantic-web-journal.net/content/five-stars-linked-data-vocabulary-use

11:31:07 From Robert Best Fed wiki is like the fediverse/activitypub, just without inboxes.

11:32:19 From Jeff Miller With Silke Helfrich's library and an annotation and cataloguing effort -- I am recalling what the journalists' consortiums did to collaborate on the Paradise Papers etc. - a distributed annotation and sense-making effort.

11:33:41 From Robert Best Is letting someone else with their own domain name take a space on my farm with that name as simple as adding it into my caddy proxy and having them point it at my IP address?

11:33:43 From Jeff Miller There may be other efforts that are comparable. (Ward mentions WikiData as having better support for multilingual work; about ten years old now;)

11:33:51 From Marc Pierson http://npl.wiki/assets/home/index.html

11:33:58 From Jeff Miller Robert: I think so? I have a bitsy farm right now.

11:34:14 From Marc Pierson https://ridingdynamics.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/riding-dynamics/view/1-introduction/view/what-is-this-book-about

11:34:19 From Paul Rodwell https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books

11:34:29 From Jeff Miller Reacted to "https://www.wikidata..." with 👏

11:35:07 From Frank Gerhardt with all of Silkes notes

11:35:58 From Jeff Miller 🙂 I love imagining the pictures of the physical books with the notes.

11:36:52 From Marc Pierson https://ridingdynamics.relocalizecreativity.net/view/welcome-visitors/view/riding-dynamics/view/1-introduction/view/what-is-this-book-about

11:38:17 From Jeff Miller http://wiki.pixiereport.com/view/welcome-visitors - haven't gotten very far, but it's a farm with Friends security, I think you can add your new person's subdomain at the same IP address -- if you use TLS and certs, there may be a question of what their browser does. and which books are next to which books! imagemap it!

11:39:39 From Robert Best Put these pictures in a wonder room :)

11:39:49 From Jeff Miller too bad we can't virtual-reality the smell of a library!

11:40:15 From Robert Best Browse vs search

11:40:16 From Jeff Miller Robert: yes, a wonder room would be a good starting place for putting the library up

11:41:22 From Jeff Miller updated http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/sunday-explorers

11:42:51 From Robert Best Does wiki already have something for image maps? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_map

11:43:18 From Paul Rodwell https://johnpeelarchive.com/albums/

11:43:36 From Frank Gerhardt this is an OCR-ed PDF of the book covers inthe commons category

11:45:35 From Jeff Miller Ward suggests that an image map in wiki could be best accomplished by overlaying a SVG on the image background to provide clickable targets in the way that image maps do -- use the supported mechanism already in wiki.

11:46:06 From Paul Rodwell https://johnpeelarchive.com/brian-eno

11:46:25 From Frank Gerhardt Reacted to "https://johnpeelar..." with ❤️

11:46:29 From Jeff Miller Paul provides the John Peel archive as an example of a navigable, pleasantly interactive archive using Javascript etc. (Marc observes: "very cool!")

11:48:07 From Jeff Miller Eric demonstrates that the LP spines in the John Peel archive are done in exactly this way - an SVG archive highlighting the album where the mouse pointer is havering.

11:49:46 From Jeff Miller Paul: thank you very much! "first movement of Beethoven's 5th symphony"

11:50:30 From Frank Gerhardt hey, this https://johnpeelarchive.com/albums/index.html?shelfNum=3 has left and right arrows! It's much larger than on first sight

11:51:49 From Frank Gerhardt Jeff, can you save the chat again when it's over?

11:51:49 From Jeff Miller "each symphony is a playlist in sequence, annotated with the orchestra and composer"

11:52:29 From Marc Pierson Hey Frank, what is your interest in the commons?

11:53:21 From Jeff Miller yes, I'd be happy to - I've been updating periodically charging rent on the enclosed commons the reinvention of robber baron capitalism

11:54:32 From Jeff Miller Creative Commons! we could use some updates for open databases

11:57:08

11:57:08 From Marc Pierson http://fedwikiriver.com/

11:57:11 From Frank Gerhardt OpenTripPlanner

11:57:14 From Paul Rodwell https://github.com/opentripplanner

11:59:46

11:59:46 From Jeff Miller updating http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/sunday-explorers

11:59:56 From Frank Gerhardt Reacted to "updating http://je..." with 👍

12:02:33

12:02:33 From Jeff Miller http://jeff.dojo.fed.wiki/view/sunday-explorers with pictures connector roads and island village developments

12:03:42 From Jeff Miller (Ward's description of bicycling around and finding roads that connected or didn't connect)